What's Today's Conservative Movement Missing?

IFB ^ | 3/29/21

[bagster]

You're escalating bro. Please don't taze me.

Your original idea:

“Your ideas are stupid” but offer no alternative other than “My ideas are better”. Then, you decide you can judge my personal state by my replies to your blather.

You said this:

a charismatic leader who draws in the middle is what is required.

I said this (notice the factual content, the alternate and opposing idea, and the lack of blather):

You don't need to draw in the middle (he did) when you get more votes than ever in the history of the earth, like Trump did. Crossover included blacks, mexicans, homos, and every other minority, democrats, and union workers. I'm talking legit votes.

This was idea vs idea and all of a sudden my head is in my annos.

Not productive.

Stick with your pseudo intellectual position, (though not expanded upon

My position (that Trump 'drew in the middle' in a huge way, does not need expanding upon. Those facts are clear. Unless you challenge it, which you haven't yet. You have only challenged me personally, and my intellect apparently.

Do you challenge it, or are you sticking with 'Trump didn't draw in the middle'?

And I challenge you, not because I don't like you (I don't), but because THAT particular idea is dangerous in that it says Trump did it wrong, his policies were wrong, his behavior was wrong, and that we need to do something different to 'draw in the middle'.

No, my FRiend. We need to do EXACTLY what Trump did, at all levels. THAT is the only way and how you draw in the middle.

So, yes. I will fight this slide back into mediocrity I'm seeing on FR. The shuffle back to the way we were. We already know THAT doesn't work.

Oh, one more thing.

Stick with your pseudo intellectual position...

What about 'Trump drew in the middle' is 'psuedo-intellectual?

Second question: If it is to you, what does that say about YOU?

#ExamineYourself

#UpdateYourParadigm

#KnowWhatsHappening

#AboveAllCalmDown

[Wiser now]

They are missing ENOUGH statesmen with backbone. Trump can’t do it alone, especially when he has to deal with backstabbers like McConnell.

[redgolum]

The American evangelical church is okay with sin and is not repenting.

Look how fast it is going LGBQT and critical race theory. The SBC used to be relatively orthodox on social morality, but kicked that to the CURB rather quickly.

[redgolum]

Trump was a charismatic political leader.

That doesn’t mean he was/is a good Christian. His behavior implies the opposite.

The biggest problem with Evangelicals is they put the cross equal to or subservient to politics.

The Cross is above both.

By putting Trump on the pulpit in many evangelical circles, when he failed they often feel like God fails. I have more than few in my circle who felt that God “failed” them in the election, and are in major crisis of faith.

Trump was not a messiah. He was at best a stop gap, but more like part of the problem. God did not rule his private or business life, so why do so many expect Him to rule Trump’s public life?

[dfwgator]

God has always used flawed men for His purpose.

[redgolum]

Since I am in a quarrelsome mood, I will jump in.

Trump brought a lot of people into his camp that traditional never vote Republican, and pushed an equal number to vote for Biden.

He was, and is, a lightening rod. Love him or hate him Trump blew up the status quo in a way no one counted on.

Local GOP HATED him. Trump ruined the patronage train they were all on. Suburban women voted for the dems because of Harris and “Grab em” comment, the Catholic Church started pressuring on the detention of the coreligionists angle, and hustles suddenly had a lot of ammo to use to get money.

At this stage of the game (the end of the Republic) that is to be expected. Trump was a Crassus. We are still waiting for our Caesar

[bagster]

Religion does not enter into my calculus in regards to Trump, but this line jumped out at me...

He was at best a stop gap, but more like part of the problem.

Fascinating. Part of what problem, I wonder?

He was so far the opposite of the problem as to be the solution. Amazing that you could say this, O ye of little faith.

And this...

...when he failed...

Having an election stolen from you is not failure. Tell your evangelical buddies about the stolen election and inspire them to get angry at those that stole it, both democrats and republicants alike.

Man, I hate to see FR roll up in a ball and go home amd start language like that. Now do you see why I have abandoned the 'conservative' label and am now a PATRIOT?

[bagster]

They are missing ENOUGH statesmen with backbone. Trump can’t do it alone, especially when he has to deal with backstabbers like McConnell.

This.

[bagster]

Trump....and pushed an equal number to vote for Biden.

So you're going with the 'reported' election figures? Trump stole a massive amount of votes from the dem side but they stole 'em right back. Trump did not drive votes to Biden.

My estimate is (legitimate votes) Trump won 80=85 mill to 30-35 mill.

And just about every state, maybe even California.

Suburban women voted for the dems...

More crazy talk.

[redgolum]

Not really crazy talk.

Saw the data prior to the election. Suburban women went solidly for Harris. Not for down ticket Dems, but they voted for the other woman (snicker). Many suburban women will vote as their social peers pressure them to. The early projections on voting had it very close, but if you dug into it you say that many were “no response”. Heck I WAS. But the local GOP was pretty confident Trump was on his way out and prepared accordingly. Now maybe they were tipped off that the fix was in, but the internal polls were not breaking the way they wanted.

There were some votes stolen. Hard to argue that. Arizona and Nevada look odd, but even at the extremely local level a lot of socially conservative, weekly church going folks voted against Trump because of his attitude and his stance on illegal immigration. Lost some close friends who, while at my house, started demanding I vote for Harris (never Biden, always Harris) because “You have young daughters and HOW DARE YOU NOT VOTE FOR A STRONG WOMAN OVER A MISORGYNST!”

My bride, who is a bit of an evil genius, kept tripping up with their statements on how their Christian faith made them support infanticide and theft. I do love watching an artist work in her medium, but long story short I do not expect to ever see that couple in our home again.

They later left the church to go to one where anti Trump stuff was preached every week. Never mind my church only talks politics where it intersects the faith. They wanted a church that would preach Social Justice, and not Christ. They were not alone. We lost people on both teams. One who demanded the church preach Trump, another who demanded we denounce him. We are LCMS, and have a “Two spheres” theology with a healthy distrust of any government.

[redgolum]

I agree with that.

It is also why I post Psalm 146 every election day. God has used evil men for his design, and allowed good men to die. God in the Second Person of the Trinity was put to death one Friday 2000 years or so ago, and that was the victory of the whole game.

But back to the point, Trump was/is a populist. He road the wave into the white house. Trump is a salesman who can sell the sizzle, but if you look at his policy he was horrible at picking good people. Part of it was his style. He does not like to delegate and is of the mind that planning ahead is not done. So once the State got some data on him they were able to turn his flank pretty quickly. The GOP had all houses of the government, and did very little. By the end Trump was betrayed by everyone, and few wanted to be on his staff since it was career suicide.

[bagster]

He does not like to delegate and is of the mind that planning ahead is not done.

Wow. With all due respect, terrible read.

Maybe you never watched The Apprentice. Or asked Jeff Sessions or Wray, or any other of his key appointments. He picked the best people (or so he thought) and expected them to do their job.

At most, angry tweets about Sessions and prodding tweets to Barr. Of course I can't vouch for anything said behind closed doors.

He could have forced many issues personally, like releasing documents himself, but had politics to consider, sadly. That may have been a mistake.

He is Mister delegate, which is the exact opposite of your read.

And of course we disagree that he doesn't 'plan ahead'. He learned to do that as a developer. And I happen to think, personally, that he had a YUGE plan as President. You know I frequent a thread called TRUST TRUMP'S PLAN, hey? Whether the plan is/will work, may remain to be seen, as some people still think.

So I believe you got it wrong on two counts and have misread Donald Trump and events bigly.

[bagster]

Saw the data prior to the election. Suburban women went solidly for Harris.

Polls mean absolutely nothing to me. Nothing.

Pre-election polls were rigged to gaslight, and the actual poll on election day was MASSIVELY rigged and blatant.

As you can see, I hold no truck with polls. I'm tired of being lied to.

I would say Trump landslide all demos other than young white college students, while bringing in a HUGE amount from minorities, labor, hispanicals, asians, gays, women, and yes, suburban white women.

Maybe in 2016 they had their doubts when Trump was a cipher and the "P" grabbing was fresh, but after four years of watching him and Melania, why would their numbers not increase for him?

No. This was a massive legitimate super landslide like no other, and it was stolen massively right back.

In a fair election today, he would win by even more massive numbers after just a taste of these two clowns.

[bagster]

Hey, golum. I'm going down for a nappy nap. Nice chat, thanks.

See ya' 'round the popsicle stand.

[redgolum]

Enjoy. Night shift for me so I should have been sleeping anyway

[The Ignorant Fisherman]

“I will give children to be their princes, And babes shall rule over them.
Isa. 3:4