Thoughts on The Timing Of The Rapture

https://billrandles.wordpress.com/2020/05/08/thoughts-on-the-timing-of-the-rapture/ ^ | 05-09-20 | Bill Randles

[fortes fortuna juvat]

I’m curious. Do you think your favorite passage in James DISPROVES all the other verses in Scripture that teach we cannot save ourselves by our works and that it is by grace THROUGH faith and not by works?

In your version of the gospel, what part does someone’s “works” contribute to their salvation? Is it 3/4 faith and 1/4 works? Half and half?

And then you might want to address what you mean by “works”. The Ten Commandments only? The Big 10 PLUS????

Finally, when someone dies does God take out a big scale and put all their “good works” on one side and all their sins on the other to decide whether they go to heaven or hell? Seems like you leave out a lot of details in your answers.
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First, as you know, the verses cited from James do not teach that one can be saved by one’s works. That protestant red herring has been stinking up religious discourse ever since the heretical Augustinian monk first proclaimed he had discovered hidden in the Bible the doctrines of Sola Fide and Sola Scriptura!

Your second question is of course simply silly. Our eternal destiny is completely in God’s hands, and as Paul says, “if we sin after seeing the truth, NO SACRIFICE REMAINS FOR OUR SINS, only a terrifying judgment to come” and “the Lord will judge His people.” I assume that would also include YOU! And of course, that is why Paul admonishes his friends to work out their own salvation WITH FEAR AND TREMBLING!

Your final quip is also quite silly, because God already knows everything that was, that is, and that will be. So he knows everything there is to know concerning your sinful and unrepentant violations of his commandments, and His judgment will be made known to you at the hour of your death. So bear in mind that, as Paul has told us, “It’s a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.”

[ebb tide]

Dumb question.

[smvoice]

I’m sure you think so. That would require actual THOUGHT, not just FEELINGS. But if you thought instead of felt, you would find yourself at odds with the feel good church of instant gratification

[MHGinTN]

I am not a Catholic or Roman Catholic. You and I are three part beings (Paul says we are spirit, soul, and body. The spirit we have is dead without the Life of God in it. The soul is mind, emotion, and will, and is not the spirit. The soul is interfaced with the physical body but is not in the same spacetime coordinate system as the body, so the soul is not terminated when the body dies. To go any further would be offering pearls to a scoffer so I will not go further. Just do not take the mark when it is commanded to you.

[fortes fortuna juvat]

If there was someone who was sinless, then they’d have proved that it could be done by man and there would be no need for Jesus to come and die for the forgiveness of our sin.
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Your conclusion doesn’t necessarily follow from your premise.

[fortes fortuna juvat]

Just do not take the mark when it is commanded to you.
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I wonder if I might have received the mark without my consent?

[boatbums]

First, as you know, the verses cited from James do not teach that one can be saved by one’s works. That protestant red herring has been stinking up religious discourse ever since the heretical Augustinian monk first proclaimed he had discovered hidden in the Bible the doctrines of Sola Fide and Sola Scriptura!

It's no "red herring" if even today people like you keep tossing out "faith without works is dead" chum trying to disprove salvation by faith with no context nor comprehension of what James was teaching. Just so you know, it was NOT to contradict the gospel preached by Paul that "not by works of righteousness which we have done but according to His mercy he saved us". As for your other fishy assertions, sola fide and sola Scriptura are both Biblical truths that were believed AND defended by the early leaders of the faith. You willing to read about that and admit you are wrong? I've got the proof if you want it.

Your second question is of course simply silly. Our eternal destiny is completely in God’s hands, and as Paul says, “if we sin after seeing the truth, NO SACRIFICE REMAINS FOR OUR SINS, only a terrifying judgment to come” and “the Lord will judge His people.” I assume that would also include YOU! And of course, that is why Paul admonishes his friends to work out their own salvation WITH FEAR AND TREMBLING!

Do you even realize what you say??? If we sin after "seeing the truth" there's no hope for anyone? Don't you understand that the blood of Jesus Christ continually cleanses us of all sin? If sinning was not expected to still happen in a believer's life then why were we told:

If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say we have not sinned, we make Him out to be a liar, and His word is not in us. (I John 1:8-10)

We have an advocate with the Father it's Jesus Christ the righteous one! The indwelling Holy Spirit is always working within us to convict us of sin, move our hearts to repentance and conform us to the image of Christ. BTW...you "work out" or exercise your salvation - you don't work FOR your salvation. But, by all means if you imagine you can merit salvation by all the good works you do for God, boast away. It won't save you, though.

Your final quip is also quite silly, because God already knows everything that was, that is, and that will be. So he knows everything there is to know concerning your sinful and unrepentant violations of his commandments, and His judgment will be made known to you at the hour of your death. So bear in mind that, as Paul has told us, “It’s a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.”

No one is questioning God's omniscience. What is silly is your constant spouting of the "faith without works is dead" mantra as if that misinterpretation nullifies grace. What was the reason do you think why Paul said:

And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work. (Rom. 11:6)

Of course God desires that we live in obedience to Him, but it is not what saves us. Faith alone in the blood of Jesus Christ alone is what saves. You are the one who keeps arguing for works in salvation. I'd think you would have some idea of what kind of works, how many works are enough to earn heaven. If our salvation depends upon our faith PLUS works, then there must be some kind of accounting at death to determine where we end up. I rejoice that I KNOW I have eternal life - something God desires for us called the Blessed Hope. I am completely dependent upon His grace to save me - as He promised - and that is what spurs me to surrender to His leading and guiding. I live in obedience out of gratitude for what He has done for me - not out of fear that I might not make it to heaven, or I haven't been good enough to deserve it. The truth is NONE of us deserves it. That's why Christ died for us.

I pray that you finally come to the knowledge of this truth so that you may one know the joyful assurance of:

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved. In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace; Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence; Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself: That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him: In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory. (Ephesians 1:3-14)

[imardmd1]

Not one of these points you made incorporates spiritual discernment. I have no time rught now to refute them point by point, but none of them does not require misrepresentation, misapplication, and/or misinterpretation of the clear meaning given by Jesus in the instruction He left them immediately before His final ascension.

Your retort here displays that 1 Cor 2:13-15 applies to your natural--and false--logic.

[Mark17]

I don’t know why that keeps happening! I only hit “Post” one time.

Get an IPhone. You want have this problem. 😁🤪😆😎
Seriously, sometimes I get distracted, while typing up a post, and don’t recall if I hit post or not. I just go back to the thread in a new window. That has stopped me from double posting, but I think everyone has double posted, at one time or another. 👍🤪

[fortes fortuna juvat]

as Paul says, “if we sin after seeing the truth, NO SACRIFICE REMAINS FOR OUR SINS, only a terrifying judgment to come” and “the Lord will judge His people.” I assume that would also include YOU! And of course, that is why Paul admonishes his friends to work out their own salvation WITH FEAR AND TREMBLING!
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Don’t like what Paul teaches here, eh? I assumed you wouldn’t because it flat out contradicts your self-serving misinterpretation of Scripture. But of course that’s precisely how those who are terrified of the judgment have managed to convince themselves is their way to avoid it. I implore you to take heed my friend, there is NO ESCAPE from the judgment. Presumption leads to perdition and perdition is the eternal fire that awaits you if you don’t do as Paul says and work out your salvation with fear and trembling!

[metmom]

Yes, it does. Scripture even tells us that.

Galatians 2:15-21 We ourselves are Jews by birth and not Gentile sinners; yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified.

But if, in our endeavor to be justified in Christ, we too were found to be sinners, is Christ then a servant of sin? Certainly not! For if I rebuild what I tore down, I prove myself to be a transgressor. For through the law I died to the law, so that I might live to God. I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose.

[metmom]

I wonder if I might have received the mark without my consent?

You can't receive something without your consent. If you receive it, but default you have given consent to it.

You may be given it without your consent, it may be inflicted on you, but at that point, you are not a willing participant.

I have no doubt they will try to force it on some people. I think then God would recognize the circumstances and not hold the person marked accountable.

[metmom]

I implore you to take heed my friend, there is NO ESCAPE from the judgment.

Actually there is but Catholicism denies it and calls faith *the sin of presumption*.

Here are Jesus' own words on the matter.

John 5:24 Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.

If you take that verse from Hebrews at face value then nobody can ever be saved because once you've gone to confession and been *forgiven* (earned your clean record by paying for your sin yourself as Catholicism teaches) then should you go out and sin, you are damned forever.

Catholicism doesn't allow for non-Catholics to be saved, (unless they're muslim) but doesn't even guarantee it for those who claim to be Catholic.

So what's the point of even being Catholic in the first place? So you can have a slightly better than a snowball's chance in hell of avoiding God's wrath and making it to heaven? Maybe? If you're good enough?

[Philsworld]

“When I got to the following I stopped reading. This is just not truth and it is not in The Bible. perhaps the author does not believe in the Rapture but that IS in the Bible, the event.”

What you should have done was CAREFULLY read the first part of the article. The author is saying that the following people (including Raul Ries) ARE STILL TEACHING THE SERPENT’S LIE that “ye shall not surely die” I’m glad you recognize that it isn’t the truth. I ALREADY KNOW THAT. And, if you read the rest of the article you’ll learn a lot more. All that stuff you wrote and you are the one who didn’t correctly read the text of the article.

The article starts near the top of the page, here:

Is this what the Bible teaches? Do people have an immortal spirit that continues conscious life immediately after clinical death? While that is sincerely believed by the vast majority of Christians, it is a lie that was first told by Satan in the garden of Eden:

Gen 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

The Serpent’s lie is still taught today from church pulpits:

366 The Church teaches that every spiritual soul is created immediately by God - it is not “produced” by the parents - and also that it is immortal: it does not perish when it separates from the body at death, and it will be reunited with the body at the final Resurrection.235 — Catechism of the Catholic Church

On his October 7th, 2003 Breakthrough program, Pastor Rod Parsley of the World Harvest Church, Columbus Ohio, made the following assertion:

Everybody, in this room, is going to live forever! No, no, I got to go real slow with you. Everybody, in this room, is going to live forever! I guess I better help you with one more word tagged on to that sentence. Everybody, in this room, is going to live forever, somewhere! - Rod Parsley.
The late D. James Kennedy, at the end of his Truths That Transform sermon dated April 4th, 2003, titled Why I Believe In Hell said:

Yes, dear friend, the truth of the scripture is that the anger and wrath of God will one day fall upon your sins. The only question is, will it fall upon you, in hell, forever, or will it fall upon Jesus Christ, upon the cross. That choice is yours to make. You WILL live forever, somewhere! - D. James Kennedy

On the June 28th, 2000, This is your day program, Benny Hinn said the following:

The important thing is - eternity. Now remember, like I said last night, nobody here is going to die. Our bodies will, of course. This flesh will go back to dust. But the real you, the real person, will never die. The real you, the real spirit, will never die, its gonna live forever. The question is where. Where will this real you live? Will the real you live with God in heaven and glory, or will the real you live with the enemy and his angels and his demons? That’s your choice, you see, you make that choice in life. - Benny Hinn
And here is Pastor Raul Ries, Calvary Chapel Golden Springs, Diamond Bar, California, from the program broadcast on Thursday, November 2nd, 2000, “The Rich Man And Lazarus”, Tape TS-871.

Do people live beyond the grave, for all eternity? Yes! One of the things that we must understand, is that, everybody not only is going to die, but everybody is going to live forever, whether you go to heaven, or whether you go to hell. - Raul Ries
In his sermon broadcast Friday, August 27, 2010, on Hebrews 11:30-40, Raul Ries said:

... we as believers, when we die, we don’t go to sleep, the moment a person takes their last breath and they die, ... the angels of God come to take you home, and they take you to be with the Lord. This body remains here, goes back into the earth, but the spirit, the spirit that’s in us, immediately is in the presence of God in heaven, and what does God do? Immediately He gives you a new body - a new body - all things become new. - RAUL RIES.

Also on past television programs broadcast from the South Bend Indiana based LeSEA (Lester Sumrall Evangelistic Association) ministries, Steve Sumrall and Delron Shirley also made the astounding statement that no one ever really dies, that everyone lives forever, the righteous in heaven and the wicked in hell. The late Lester Sumrall even taught this himself; that every human being was given immortality by God, and will never die. (Lester Sumrall was an ordained Assemblies of God minister.)

*******here’s where you stopped reading******

Actually, this is a belief that is widely accepted by most of the Christian community, but does the Bible teach eternal life (immortality) for everyone, wicked and righteous alike? What does the Bible really teach about death?

here it is again MHGinTN
http://aloha.net/~mikesch/death.htm

[Philsworld]

The old covenant was made with Israel. The new covenant was made with the house of Israel and the house of Judah. We as Christians (Gentiles) are grafted into the promise. The new covenant was NOT made with Christians. We simply benefit from it because we have been given the opportunity of Salvation. That is what the bible says.

Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

It was foretold in the old testament:

Jeremiah 31:
31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

fortes fortuna juvat is correct

[Philsworld]

Again, fortes fortuna juvat is correct:

26 If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, 27 but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. 28 Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 How much more severely do you think someone deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified them, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know him who said, “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,” and again, “The Lord will judge his people.” 31 For it is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God!

I don’t have the time to research it right now but there are texts that talk about how it is possible to be removed from the book of life.

We are saved by grace (faith) but we are judged by the law.

Anyone here who thinks they can’t sin or that God’s law doesn’t apply to them because they are born again is in for a big wake up call and you just might end up on the wrong end of the book of life. Once saved always saved? not a chance. Once saved then you are responsible to obey God’s word and law.

John 14:21
Whoever has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me. The one who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and reveal Myself to him.”

[Philsworld]

10 facts about death according to the bible (including what happens to your soul)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGvZ152iSHo&feature=emb_logo

[Philsworld]

still waiting for you to tell us what the mark of the beast is.

[metmom]

We are declared righteous not on the basis of our law keeping but on the imputed righteousness of Christ credited to our account.

so you are wrong that once someone is saved, they have to law keep.

Galatians 3:1-29 O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? It was before your eyes that Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified. Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law or by hearing with faith? Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh? Did you suffer so many things in vain—if indeed it was in vain? Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law, or by hearing with faith— just as Abraham “believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness”?

Know then that it is those of faith who are the sons of Abraham. And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, “In you shall all the nations be blessed.” So then, those who are of faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith.

For all who rely on works of the law are under a curse; for it is written, “Cursed be everyone who does not abide by all things written in the Book of the Law, and do them.” Now it is evident that no one is justified before God by the law, for “The righteous shall live by faith.” But the law is not of faith, rather “The one who does them shall live by them.” Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us—for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who is hanged on a tree”— so that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we might receive the promised Spirit through faith.

To give a human example, brothers: even with a man-made covenant, no one annuls it or adds to it once it has been ratified. Now the promises were made to Abraham and to his offspring. It does not say, “And to offsprings,” referring to many, but referring to one, “And to your offspring,” who is Christ. This is what I mean: the law, which came 430 years afterward, does not annul a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to make the promise void. For if the inheritance comes by the law, it no longer comes by promise; but God gave it to Abraham by a promise.

Why then the law? It was added because of transgressions, until the offspring should come to whom the promise had been made, and it was put in place through angels by an intermediary. Now an intermediary implies more than one, but God is one.

Is the law then contrary to the promises of God? Certainly not! For if a law had been given that could give life, then righteousness would indeed be by the law. But the Scripture imprisoned everything under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.

Now before faith came, we were held captive under the law, imprisoned until the coming faith would be revealed. So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith. But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian, for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith. For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise.

[Cottonpatch]

Salvation is entirely Grace by faith..and even Romans 12:3 states God has given us the faith to believe.
3 ¶ For by the grace given to me, I tell everyone among you not to think of himself more highly than he should think. Instead, think sensibly, as God has distributed a measure of faith to each one.
Who so ever will can come because God gave us faith. No one is without that measure.