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Pope Francis: Catholics shouldn’t be afraid to change everything about the Church
LifeSite News ^ | December 23, 2019 | Peter Kwasniewski

Posted on 12/27/2019 10:18:18 AM PST by ebb tide

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To: rsobin

Jesus Christ fasted in the desert and prayed in the Garden of Gethsemane.

But I guess the prots are too good for any of that. Their theme seems to be “Let’s sin and let our sins be bold!” and “Once saved, always saved!”


61 posted on 12/27/2019 1:09:21 PM PST by ebb tide (We have a rogue curia in Rome.)
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To: Mrs. Don-o
How do you?

It's called Bible study. Letting Scripture interpret Scripture. Something you alluded to for one of the first times I can recall on another thread.

Found in the front of my first Bible (1959) Prayer Before Reading Scripture

Can the Roman Catholic not pray an original prayer of their own in this matter....or any other?

Do ya'll ever just talk to God...in your own words without reciting someone else's prayer??

62 posted on 12/27/2019 1:10:48 PM PST by ealgeone
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To: CommerceComet; ebb tide
To the contrary, I think Pope Francis means "change everything" as an endorsement that Luther was right. He's already demonstrated that he enjoys endowing Luther with the regalia of authority.


63 posted on 12/27/2019 1:10:52 PM PST by Mrs. Don-o (A servant of the Lord must not quarrel but be gentle to all, able to teach, and patient. 2 Tim 2:24)
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To: Capt. Tom

Best quote of the article. I believe it’s true.


64 posted on 12/27/2019 1:12:18 PM PST by Citizen Soldier
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To: Mrs. Don-o
You do realize that without the Reformation you'd probably only have a Bible in Latin (if you had one at all)....very doubtful it would be in English.

Oh the horror of getting the Scripture into the local vernacular. /sarc

65 posted on 12/27/2019 1:14:11 PM PST by ealgeone
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To: ealgeone
Ealgeone, my brother,if you knew the first thing about Catholics, you would know we pray to God in our own words all day long. And without words as well: with just a glance of recognition and gratitude.

Not so differently from yourself, I'd like to think.

We pay, consciously, with and for each other, sharing spiritual goods and blessings ceaselessly. It's part of what we mean by the "Communion of Saints."

In communion with them all.

66 posted on 12/27/2019 1:20:48 PM PST by Mrs. Don-o (A servant of the Lord must not quarrel but be gentle to all, able to teach, and patient. 2 Tim 2:24)
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To: ealgeone
Again, the same question to you....as Rome has only dogmatically defined a very small number of verses, how do you know and understand what you're reading?

You don't know if you interpreted the bible correctly, that is why the Church has dogma to tell you what the correct interpretation is. If you disagree you are a heretic.

That is why there are at least 200 Protestant denominations in this country.

I speculate there are at least that many Roman Catholic opinions on these threads.

Heresy is common in Christianity, Islam and Judaism.-Tom

67 posted on 12/27/2019 1:22:08 PM PST by Capt. Tom
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To: Mrs. Don-o
Ealgeone, my brother,if you knew the first thing about Catholics, you would know we pray to God in our own words all day long. And without words as well: with just a glance of recognition and gratitude.

Glad to hear YOU do but it sure does seem ya'll have a prayer for everything....as evidenced by the one you posted.

68 posted on 12/27/2019 1:25:08 PM PST by ealgeone
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To: Capt. Tom
>>Again, the same question to you....as Rome has only dogmatically defined a very small number of verses, how do you know and understand what you're reading?<<

You don't know if you interpreted the bible correctly, that is why the Church has dogma to tell you what the correct interpretation is. If you disagree you are a heretic.

Again...with the small number of verses Rome has dogmatically defined.....how does one know??

>> I speculate there are at least that many Roman Catholic opinions on these threads.<<

Heresy is common in Christianity, Islam and Judaism.-Tom

I agree heresy is common as you note.

How does the Roman Catholic who wants Francis removed so bad they can't stand it know they are not the heretic and Francis is right? He's the one with the formal education and the "blessing" of the College of Cardinals is he not? I see Roman Catholics who seem to think they're as equally trained as he.

How does the Roman Catholic who thinks there hasn't been a valid pope since 1958 know they are right....or wrong?

69 posted on 12/27/2019 1:29:35 PM PST by ealgeone
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To: ealgeone
Many of your fellow Roman Catholics have told us non-Roman Catholics one cannot read and understand the Bible for yourself. [...] there's more than one...trust me.

I believe that you sincerely believe it.

I'll start keeping a list though for any future conversations.

Thanks! I'd appreciate that.

Your denomination has provided you with no assistance in this matter.

Which is a problem only if the Church has also said, as you claim some Catholics hold, that one cannot read and understand the Bible for yourself. I don't accept that claim, so recognize no problem.

70 posted on 12/27/2019 1:43:57 PM PST by NobleFree ("law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the right of an individual")
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To: ealgeone; Mrs. Don-o
it sure does seem ya'll have a prayer for everything

You say that like it's a bad thing.

71 posted on 12/27/2019 1:45:40 PM PST by NobleFree ("law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the right of an individual")
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To: ealgeone

I am a life long Catholic and read the Bible every morning and hear four readings from it at every Mass.Please feel free to drop the snark.


72 posted on 12/27/2019 1:47:38 PM PST by georgia peach (georgia peach)
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To: GOPJ

I am no longer a catholic, and I have personal reasons for that, but I hold no ill will against the church...until this Marxist Pope.

If I were a devout Catholic, I would be railing against this fraud. I think he is completely into the homosexual movement, the social justice movement, and Marxism.

I thought (and still do) John Paul II was an amazing man. This Pope is evil.


73 posted on 12/27/2019 1:49:49 PM PST by rlmorel (Finding middle ground with tyranny or evil makes you either a tyrant or evil. Often both.)
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To: georgia peach

Same question to you. How do you know or understand what you’ve read without Rome’s official dogmatic rendering? It’s a serious question.


74 posted on 12/27/2019 1:50:42 PM PST by ealgeone
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To: ealgeone
"You do realize that without the Reformation you'd probably only have a Bible in Latin (if you had one at all)"

Your fancies do not offend me. They only make me smile.

The Latin Vulgate itself was a very early translation of Scriptures from their original languages (Hebrew and Koine Greek) into the vernacular (which what the word "Vulgate" means), most Western literary languages having developed in Catholic civilization only in the late Middle Ages, about the time of Dante and Chaucer--- Late Middle Ages and the Early Modern Period.

Note that: for more than a millennium, Latin was THE unifying written language of Central and Western Europe, from Oslo to Sicily, from Iona to Prague: "written" was synonymous with "written in Latin" whether you were a fur trader or an architect, an astronomer, a cleric or a cop.

As the various Western European languages developed due to the flourishing of Catholic civilization, typically the Church itself was the first to attempt to capture these languages in written form, and Bible translations are often the oldest surviving texts in these newly written-down languages.

A variety of translations and vernacular adaptations flourished between the twelfth and fifteenth centuries with no documented institutional opposition at all.

The famous Wessex Gospels ---the four Gospels in idiomatic Old English, in the West Saxon dialect ---appeared in about 990. According to the historian Victoria Thompson, every other religious text was available in English by the eleventh century.

For the sake of the Scriptures, I say, "Thank God for the Catholic Church."

75 posted on 12/27/2019 1:55:45 PM PST by Mrs. Don-o (A servant of the Lord must not quarrel but be gentle to all, able to teach, and patient. 2 Tim 2:24)
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To: MuttTheHoople

I’m not sure if Francis is a Sodom or Gomorrah Pope. A little of both I suspect.


76 posted on 12/27/2019 1:58:45 PM PST by Vaquero ( Don't pick a fight with an old guy. If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.)
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To: Mrs. Don-o
Well played! There are Bible Christians who seem to think it was written in English.
77 posted on 12/27/2019 2:05:05 PM PST by NobleFree ("law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the right of an individual")
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To: ealgeone
How does the Roman Catholic who wants Francis removed so bad they can't stand it know they are not the heretic and Francis is right? He's the one with the formal education and the "blessing" of the College of Cardinals is he not? I see Roman Catholics who seem to think they're as equally trained as he.

As I said in an earlier post, Pope Francis is to the Catholic Church what Obama was to this country.

Both organizations, the Church and our Country are not going to be the same.
How Catholics solve their problem I don't know. -Tom .

78 posted on 12/27/2019 2:19:26 PM PST by Capt. Tom
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To: Mrs. Don-o

Yeah , Wycliffe and those guys would take issue with your version of history.


79 posted on 12/27/2019 2:40:04 PM PST by ealgeone
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To: Mrs. Don-o
What is your source you lifted this from?

This is not your writing style. When one posts work that's not theirs....and this isn't yours, one is supposed to cite the source.

That's plagiarism and I imagine would be a mortal sin for the Roman Catholic.

You've been called on this many times in the past for this....by me.

It's a poor reflection on your part.

80 posted on 12/27/2019 3:21:17 PM PST by ealgeone
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