Posted on 08/02/2017 2:07:44 PM PDT by detective
That's your loss.
It's Roman Catholicism's error. And it's a serious one to equate Mary with Christ as Mediatrix and Redemptrix.
Consider this.
If the Roman Catholic position is correct, non-Catholics are not taking advantage of what the RCC claims is correct. That only leaves them praying to God...as if somehow that is insufficient.
However, if the Roman Catholic position is wrong, they have equated Mary with Christ in word and action. By kneeling before the idols of Mary, serving Mary, relying upon Mary for salvation, consecrating themselves entirely to Mary, etc, they have entered into idolatry and could even be questioned to be authentic Christianity as the Roman Catholic position on Mary is not found in the New Testament and in many places is in contradiction of the New Testament.
>>You refuse to throw away your idols of Mary and cease kneeling before them.<<
You have no idea of what's in my home and when an where I kneel.
Well, at least you do admit you kneel before the idols and pray to them.
It doesn't matter if they're in your home or your local church. They're idols plain and simple.
You continually violate forum rules with your supposed "mind-reading" powers. A legend in your own mind.
Nope. No mind reading happening. Just observing what Roman Catholics do by their own admission.
Where in your NT is the above described? Not only do you pick cherries, you add sour apples to your "bible".
Regarding Mary as a sinner:
46And Mary said: “My soul exalts the Lord, 47And my spirit has rejoiced in God my Savior. Luke 1:46-47 NASB
21But now apart from the Law the righteousness of God has been manifested, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction; 23for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus; 25whom God displayed publicly as a propitiation in His blood through faith. This was to demonstrate His righteousness, because in the forbearance of God He passed over the sins previously committed; 26for the demonstration, I say, of His righteousness at the present time, so that He would be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus. Romans 3:21-26 NASB
Regarding Mary and Joseph's children.
53When Jesus had finished these parables, He departed from there. 54He came to His hometown and began teaching them in their synagogue, so that they were astonished, and said, “Where did this man get this wisdom and these miraculous powers? 55“Is not this the carpenter’s son? Is not His mother called Mary, and His brothers, James and Joseph and Simon and Judas? 56“And His sisters, are they not all with us? Where then did this man get all these things?” 57And they took offense at Him. But Jesus said to them, “A prophet is not without honor except in his hometown and in his own household.” 58And He did not do many miracles there because of their unbelief. Matthew 13:53-58NASB
Thank you for a thoughtful response. There are points where we agree, and points where we don’t agree... yet... :o)
Let me go back to the Shape Note analogy. This type of singing is not part of specifically Catholic history and heritage, having developed in an almost exclusively Protestant culture (it reached its high point in the 19th century U.S. rural south/Southern Appalachia.) It’s not everybody’s half pint of sweet cider, but I really love it.
It doesn’t have to be divisive. It can be hugely enriching and heart-warmingly uniting. (The Gaia crisis was absolutely unprecedented in my experience!!)
Shape note definitely has its own ritual aspects.
I would strongly dispute the idea that “very little truth comes from ritual” as you said. The kind of ritual most Americans can relate to, I suspect, are traditional marriage ceremonies and traditional military funerals.
Lots of truth there, and beauty too.
Nice attempt to shift away your admission you kneel before idols. He will kneel before Christ....as everyone will.
You will also recall Satan is able to transform himself into an angel of light.
12But what I am doing I will continue to do, so that I may cut off opportunity from those who desire an opportunity to be regarded just as we are in the matter about which they are boasting. 13For such men are false apostles, deceitful workers, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. 14No wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. 15Therefore it is not surprising if his servants also disguise themselves as servants of righteousness, whose end will be according to their deeds. 2 Corinthians 11:12-15
Christians do not kneel before idols of created images nor pray to them or the image they represent.
Christians kneel before only God.
There is a difference.
55] Is not this the carpenter’s son? Is not his mother called Mary, and his brethren James, and Joseph, and Simon, and Jude:
[55] “His brethren”: These were the children of Mary the wife of Cleophas, sister to our Blessed Lady, (St. Matt. 27. 56; St. John 19. 25,) and therefore, according to the usual style of the Scripture, they were called brethren, that is, near relations to our Saviour.
Matthew 13 Douay-Rheims
Once again, you don’t know where or when I kneel.
The fact that people are former Catholics does not mean, sadly, that they were ever much exposed to Catholicism, especially Catholicism which is intellectually coherent and not distorted by the aberrations which followed in the wake of Vatican II, which was 50 years ago.
In other words, if you are like me (65 or younger)
you may have been exposed to a lot of bogus or just morally and intellectually sketchy stuff.
We are living in times when, if you don’t diligently dig, dig, dig in the field, through layers of construction rubble, rubbish, and parts of rusted 1968 Ramblers, you never actually reach the Pearl which Our Lord wants us to so highly value.
I found the Pearl. I bought the field.
And BTW, I love your Scripture quote.
Do you kneel in your church? If so, to what idol?
Do you have the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Our Lord in a tabernacle in your "church"?
Yes. Beautiful.
It does apply to Mary, though of course not only to her. It applies to “myriads” of disciples who say to God, as she said, “ Be it done unto me according to Thy Word.”
No mention of Her having sinned, is there, cherry-picker?
I'll type slow so you can keep up.
All have sinned....that includes Mary, you, me, everyone except Christ.
“In other words, if you are like me (65 or younger)
you may have been exposed to a lot of bogus or just morally and intellectually sketchy stuff.”
I’m grateful I grew up Roman instead of another religion. It gave me a foundation of general belief in God and some familiarity with Christ’s work.
I am more grateful now to know Christ and have certainty of eternal life.
I left the Roman religion after I came to entrust myself to Christ, having never heard the Gospel of grace from Rome.
“We are living in times when, if you don’t diligently dig, dig, dig in the field,..”
We are to dig into and study the word of God. It has been so for 6,000 years.
“the Pearl which Our Lord...”
Which is Himself and eternal life - not man-made, religious ritual, nor syncretic paganism.
“I love your Scripture quote.”
Indeed. And I. Thanks be to God for His Indescribable Gift!”
Do you have the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Our Lord in a tabernacle in your "church"?
Better...we have the Holy Spirit with us always. And, where two or three are gathered He is there as well.
It does apply to Mary, though of course not only to her.
To be clear....you're not saying we are to serve Mary or follow her are you.
No, He doesn't, not with heretics.
[55] “His brethren”: These were the children of Mary the wife of Cleophas, sister to our Blessed Lady, (St. Matt. 27. 56; St. John 19. 25,) and therefore, according to the usual style of the Scripture, they were called brethren, that is, near relations to our Saviour. Matthew 13 Douay-Rheims
You do realize there is more than one Mary in the NT era....more than one James, John, etc.
Yeah....I guess Paul erred in saying James was the brother of the Lord also.
The structure of the Greek, in this and other passages involving His family, all point to one thing. Joseph and Mary had their own children. In other words, they had sex....as abhorrent as that is to the Roman Catholic.
You do know there is a word for cousin in the NT which is not used in regards to His family....right?
If the Spirit wanted to clarify these were cousins the text would have so indicated.
The normal reading of the text, in context with all of the other passages, indicates Joseph and Mary had their own children after Jesus was born.
Once again...do you kneel before an idol of Mary or pray to the image supposed to be Mary?
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