Do Some Evangelicals Go too Far in Their Efforts to Bring Patriotism into the Church?

PJ Media ^ | 07/05/2017 | BY CHRIS QUEEN

[chajin]

One of the songs that the congregation sang was Woody Guthrie's folk song, "This Land Is Your Land." For those who don't know, Guthrie wrote the song as a godless alternative to "God Bless America." The original verses will make your head explode, and even if you don't have a problem with patriotism in the church, the inclusion of "This Land Is Your Land" should make your blood boil.

And the Pledge of Allegiance was written by a socialist who wanted children to do a Nazi-like salute while reciting it (to be fair, it was pre-Nazi, which is why we put our right hand over our heart instead), but was co-opted as a conservative statement of loyalty to the flag and the republic.

And the Christmas tree and wreath were co-opted from pagan religion, and All Saints Day was scheduled to co-opt Samhain. Christ is the Lord of the Universe, and deserves all praise, including and especially that which was meant to be scorn.

And when I pledge allegiance to the U.S. flag in the middle of a sanctuary in the middle of a worship service, I am pledging loyalty to my country as a subset of my loyalty to my Lord. When the country deviates from the Lord, we must obey God rather than man; otherwise, I love my country as part of my love for Christ, because it is by the blessing of God that I live in peace and prosperity in a peaceful, prosperous land.

[MamaB]

I agree 100%. I am SB and I even wrote a letter to him years ago. Never got an answer. God bless.

[Iscool]

Are you a Jehovah Witness???

[Mr Rogers]

“13 It was in faith that all these persons died. They did not receive the things God had promised, but from a long way off they saw them and welcomed them, and admitted openly that they were foreigners and refugees on earth. 14 Those who say such things make it clear that they are looking for a country of their own. 15 They did not keep thinking about the country they had left; if they had, they would have had the chance to return. 16 Instead, it was a better country they longed for, the heavenly country. And so God is not ashamed for them to call him their God, because he has prepared a city for them...” - Hebrews 11

I pray for America. I prayed for Trump’s election, and asked God to spare us President Hillary Clinton, and the appointment of “The Clinton Court”.

But when I go to church, I want to focus on the “better country they longed for, the heavenly country.”

The government is openly supporting homosexuality, transsexuals, rejoicing in men competing in sports as women, using tax payer dollars via NPR & PBS to support anti-Christians values, and has been prosecuting Christians who dare to exercise their freedom of religion. A national “Use Your Own Bathroom” law would never pass. I doubt it would get a majority of Republican votes, and it certainly would not pass.

“For a soldier to officially change gender requires only some paperwork. A military doctor or civilian medical professional must certify that the transgender person has achieved “stability in the preferred gender” and the soldier must change the gender designation on the soldier’s passport or birth certificate. From that point on, the transgender soldier is “expected to adhere to all military standards associated with their gender,” and “use the billeting, bathroom and shower facilities” of their new gender.”

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3566780/posts

America is STILL the most Christian nation I know of. My Dad spent 27 years in the military before dying in Vietnam. I spent 25 years in. My kids have served in Iraq and Afghanistan. But I see no need to put an American flag up in the church.

We flew the flag yesterday in our yard. But I don’t think it is needed in church. I’m in church as a citizen of another country, “And so God is not ashamed for them to call him their God, because he has prepared a city for them...”

[Albion Wilde]

bump

[dirtymac]

I have to say that I do not agree with your assessment that patriotism should not be part of the church.

Patriotism should be solidly in the church. We have our church in this country due to our initial revolution from England and the establishment of our freedom of religion. Otherwise our church would still at the whims of the monarchs. Much of the world is still that way with communist dictators, Muslim Imams, Iotolas, or what have you, or leftist socialist politians brutally suppressing Christianity on a world wide basis. The Christian church should be celebrating this country and our guaranteed freedom of religion.

[loveliberty2]

As we have begun, of late, to react to the movement in the late 1800's then self-identifying as a "liberal" movement (though not of the classical liberal interpretation), which has become the driving force in American politics under its new and preferred moniker, "Progressive," we have been compelled to recognize it for what it always has been, a deliberate and contrived effort to undermine and overthrow the great principles underlying the philosophy of America's Declaration of Independence and Constitution.

Such a "Liberal/Progressive" undertaking was initiated and has been led by many in the so-called "academic" community from the start, as can be documented easily for any whose interest and concern for preservation of the Constitution and its protections for religious liberty motivates them.

Removing any vestiges of religion from the "public square," or any vestiges of so-called "political speech" from religious spaces seems to have been a pet cause for radical "progressives." Why?

Are such ideological cultists so threatened by ideas conveyed by Judeo/Christian communities that they would exclude them from participation in our Republic's matters of state?

This thread aims at another facet of the discussion. For more perspective on the topic of this thread, readers might wish to review Professor Ellis Sandoz's Volumes on Political Sermons of the American Founding Era . . . ." - here.

Query: if sermons from the pulpit are dangerous to the Constitution, and if they are to be excluded from appropriate political debate, then why were these Sermons which pre- and post-date the Constitution, as published by Professor Sandoz, not criticized by the Founders themselves and/or subsequent Supreme Court decisions?

Just asking.

[robroys woman]

Absolutely not!

My parents flirted with it for a few months back in the late sixties when I was in 6th grade. They left and not on good terms.

My father is 7th day adventist, but we never attended one, nor was I ever one. The White Lie (a book) is all one needs to see through that one.

I became a Christian at 27 and attended AG for 18 years. I’ve since attended baptist, foursquare, a couple of non-denominational, church of God and currently attend “Christian”. I’m beholding to no particular organization and Identify simply as “Christian”. I’ve never agreed completely with any church I’ve attended.

I confess that in the last few years I think the JW’s got a couple of things absolutely right, and they may use that as a wedge to drive people away from Christian churches. But just because they are right about one thing doesn’t mean they are right about everything else.

[robroys woman]

I think it is great for churches to have events like that because, after all, a church is “community”, and there is a lot more to community than just church services. I just like to see the sanctuary focused on God and leave all nationalism, local sports teams, and all the other trimmings of “the world” outside the door.

And this is all just my preference. I don’t believe one’s salvation is dependent on it. ;)

[robroys woman]

I definitely believe our church should be solidly in our patriotism. I just prefer it be left out of church services and sunday school. It doesn’t mean I’m opposed to using the church building for all sorts of community events including patriotic ones.

In fact, I’d have absolutely no problem with keeping an american flag in a closet during church related activities and then pulling it out for display during community related activities, which, of course, should be steeped in the religious beliefs of the community.

[MosesKnows]

The Church is the Body of Christ

Where in the New Testament scriptures is that assertion located?

[SubMareener]

One Corinthians Chapter 12.

[cyclotic]

I’ve honestly never given the matter of a flag in a church any thought.

Our church doesn’t have one, but for the most part, you won’t find a more patriotic bunch. We have at least two flags in the building. AWANA (kids group) uses one and trail Life USA (Christian boys outdoor adventure group) uses one. We also have several more that we use for flag folding and when camping.

Patriotism isn’t encouraged or discouraged, it just isn’t really part of the church setting.

[MayflowerMadam]

We’ve always had the American Flag on the left side, and the Christian Flag on the right.

[tiki]

Um, no, not anywhere but especially the USA. After mass, our priest recognized our veterans and we said the Pledge of Allegiance.

[cyclotic]

I’ve seen the Christian Flag but never knew anything about it until a few minutes ago.

For some reason, it doesn’t set well with me, perhaps because if was endorsed by the national council of churches.

On another front, I don’t think it would fly at my church. We don’t have a cross in the front. That’s by design. Since we serve a risen Saviour, there’s no need to be reminded of the vehicle of his death.

[MosesKnows]

My question was
Where in the New Testament scriptures is that assertion (The Church is the Body of Christ) located?

One Corinthians Chapter 12 does not address that question.

Colossians Chapter 1 teaches that Christ lives inside the believer so the believer is the Body of Christ, not a church.

In my opinion the church is Christianity's biggest problem because many church's religion makes up rules that are not based on scripture.

[SubMareener]

Read the Revelation of Jesus Christ, Chapters 2 and 3 to get Jesus’ take on organized religion, and who constitutes the true “Body of Christ”. They are called “over comers” or “victors” in different translations.

Forget the Apostates! Be a VICTOR!

Revelation 17
7 The angel said to me, “Why are you amazed? I will explain to you the mystery of the woman and of the beast that carries her, the beast with the seven heads and the ten horns.
http://www.usccb.org/bible/revelation/17

Romans 10
8 But what does it say?
“The word is near you,
in your mouth and in your heart”
(that is, the word of faith that we preach),
9 for, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
10 For one believes with the heart and so is justified, and one confesses with the mouth and so is saved.
11 For the scripture says, “No one who believes in him will be put to shame.”
12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; the same Lord is Lord of all, enriching all who call upon him.
13 For “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

http://www.usccb.org/bible/romans/10

Revelation 2
7 “’”Whoever has ears ought to hear what the Spirit says to the churches.
To the victor I will give the right to eat from the tree of life that is in the garden of God.”’
- - - - -
11 “’”Whoever has ears ought to hear what the Spirit says to the churches.
The victor shall not be harmed by the second death.”’
- - - - -
17 “’”Whoever has ears ought to hear what the Spirit says to the churches.
To the victor I shall give some of the hidden manna; I shall also give a white amulet upon which
is inscribed a new name, which no one knows except the one who receives it.”’
- - - - -
24 But I say to the rest of you in Thyatira, who do not uphold this teaching and
know nothing of the so-called deep secrets of Satan: on you I will place no further burden,
25 except that you must hold fast to what you have until I come.
26 “’”To the victor, who keeps to my ways until the end, I will give authority over the nations.
27 He will rule them with an iron rod. Like clay vessels will they be smashed,
28 just as I received authority from my Father. And to him I will give the morning star.
29 “’”Whoever has ears ought to hear what the Spirit says to the churches.”’
- - - - -
Revelation 3
4 However, you have a few people in Sardis who have not soiled their garments;
they will walk with me dressed in white, because they are worthy.
5 “’”The victor will thus be dressed in white, and I will never erase his name
from the book of life but will acknowledge his name in the presence of my
Father and of his angels.
6 “’”Whoever has ears ought to hear what the Spirit says to the churches.”’
- - - - -
7 “To the angel of the church in Philadelphia, write this:
“‘The holy one, the true,
who holds the key of David,
who opens and no one shall close,
who closes and no one shall open,
says this:
8 “‘“I know your works (behold, I have left an open door before you, which no one can close).
You have limited strength, and yet you have kept my word and have not denied my name.
9 Behold, I will make those of the assembly of Satan who claim to be Jews and are not,
but are lying, behold I will make them come and fall prostrate at your feet,
and they will realize that I love you.
10 Because you have kept my message of endurance, I will keep you safe in the time of trial
that is going to come to the whole world to test the inhabitants of the earth.
11 I am coming quickly. Hold fast to what you have, so that no one may take your crown.
12 “‘“The victor I will make into a pillar in the temple of my God, and he will never leave it again.
On him I will inscribe the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem,
which comes down out of heaven from my God, as well as my new name.
13 “‘“Whoever has ears ought to hear what the Spirit says to the churches.”’
- - - - -
20 “’”Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and
opens the door, [then] I will enter his house and dine with him, and he with me.
21 I will give the victor the right to sit with me on my throne, as I myself
first won the victory and sit with my Father on his throne.

22 “’”Whoever has ears ought to hear what the Spirit says to the churches.”’”
- - - - -

* [2:7] Victor: referring to any Christian individual who holds fast to the faith
and does God’s will in the face of persecution. The tree of life that is in the
garden of God: this is a reference to the tree in the primeval paradise (Gn 2:9);
cf. Rev 22:2, 14, 19. The decree excluding humanity from the tree of life has
been revoked by Christ.

http://www.usccb.org/bible/revelation/2
http://www.usccb.org/bible/revelation/3

[conservatism_IS_compassion]

I have been uncomfortable with that sort of thing. Borders on idolatry, IMHO. Hope God doesn’t agree.