Posted on 06/04/2017 12:29:15 PM PDT by ealgeone
If you look at it only from the temporal perspective, I can see how it may appear that way. But there are too many verses that use chosen, elect, election, and predestined to indicate that from God’s perspective, He chooses the elect.
I am overwhelmed that God would choose anyone, let alone me. I am ashamed of my sins, and my righteousness is as filthy rags in His sight. While I try to live up to the gift that He has given me, I know that no matter what I do, I am only saved by His Grace.
I do not believe that you have to believe in predestination to be a Christian. But predestination gives me the hope that He who began a good work in me will see it through to the end, and that I can believe on the promises not yet seen.
We ALL persist in our sins and will as long as we inhabit these bodies here on earth.-———————————
I agree, but does lying about our faith have to be one of those sins?
Matthew 22
37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
Just these two and we find our own way to keep them, as the laws of God are written in our hearts.
Mathew 7:12
Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.
If we don`t do that maybe we just do not have the faith we claim to have and are liars.
John 2:4
He who saith that he knoweth him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
Rev 21:8
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
We also need to realize that being on a horse a dozen times in 75 years does not make any one a cowgirl or cowboy.
The word *Baptism* was in use then and Jesus Himself had been baptized. He knew what it was and could have used the word for it. He didn’t.
A discussion sidestepping becoming a born again Christian
Would you like the simple instructions from the Bible so you can start living in the Kingdom of God instead of a broken denomination?
Bravo, FRiend.
THAT is saving faith, faith in action as James relates it. BUT know this, unless we turn our will from the enslavement of sin, to the faith in God standard, we cannot realize Saving Faith.
***
It’s a good thing that it’s the Lord that also turns our wills away from sin, because if that was up to me too, I’d still be dead in my sin.
Selah ... me, too.
I get that, and agree. But I think using the word “paradox,” an apparent contradiction, is accurate in terms of how it tends to look on first glance, before deep consideration and study of the two passages. I think it’s important to recognize that since situations like these do try our understanding, open a door to confusion, and are something that unbelievers point to - as in, “oh, the Bible is full of contradictions.” It helps, I think, to be able to point out that where two things may appear to conflict, that Christians should think there’s a paradox, something that just appears to be a contradiction, rather than an actual contradiction.
Okay, thank you for the clarification.
Not at all. You are avoiding the question. If someone believes that Jesus paid the price for our sins yet still with grave matter, sufficient reflection, and full consent of the will sins and never repents of this sin, will he be saved. If I understand metmom correctly, she would say no, that that person does not have saving faith.
In your post #553 you said "of course not." But from your answer here, that "Jesus paid the price we could not pay and freely gives us eternal life. Faith is believing in that promise. Specifically believing that the promise is true FOR YOU," and "Comments about sin making you lose salvation are irrelevant. Because the promise remains the same," would imply that you would say yes.
Now it is possible that we are talking past each other, but then I would ask of your are listening to me? I do not want to misstate what you believe but it seems to me that you are skirting the issue. Thus I ask you, is it just believing the promise that Jesus paid the price for my sins, or must I also have a saving faith that produces good works? You must understand that I have received both answers from different Protestants.
ALL of that has been addressed on this forum already.
You are going to have to go back through the last hundred of so posts to find that information.
READ it.
Yes, but the works were the effects of the faith and salvation, not the cause.
Paul was not talking about the works of faith he was talking about the works of the law such as circumcision and not Good works.
St. Paul is talking about works that have nothing to do with salvation but are outward proclamations.
Having even good works do not save us because we can not earn our way to heaven as it is a gift.
But we know what Jesus told us to do and any one who believes in him will know that they should do what he says.
That’s wrong and kind of insulting.-————————————
yes, but that is what it leads to when the disagreement is based on the name of the Church rather than what scripture says.
My understanding of predestination is a little different.
I see it not as God choosing to save the few He chose to elect, but rather that those He foreknew would accept His offer of salvation, He then predestined those who were saved to go to heaven.
Thus guaranteeing their arrival there.
I read Scripture as saying that Jesus died for the sins of the WHOLE world, whether everyone ever avails themselves of it or not, they have the opportunity. Then nobody can make an accusation against God in any form of being unjust.
Also, Scripture says that God commands all men everywhere to repent and that it is His desire that all men be saved and come to a knowledge of the truth.
To me, that fits in much better with the character of God as He did create man for fellowship with Himself and that is what He wanted and wants.
So since that is His desire, I don’t see Him not giving everyone at least ONE opportunity to come to Him sometime in their life.
For some people, it will be. But if they are lying about their faith, then they are not saved.
Bravo, FRiend.
X
Same here. The flesh is strong in this one.
It loves its way too much, which is the cause of most of the struggles I have.
Not all. The health issues don't count in that.
But if they are lying about their faith, then they are not saved.
It loves its way too much, which is the cause of most of the struggles I have.
Matthew 22:14 (NASB)
“For many are called, but few are chosen.”
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