Posted on 08/28/2016 6:29:15 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o
ROME
CANON 9: “If any one saith, that by faith alone the impious is justified; in such wise as to mean, that nothing else is required to co-operate in order to the obtaining the grace of Justification, and that it is not in any way necessary, that he be prepared and disposed by the movement of his own will; let him be anathema.”
Right. Exactly.
So, what is the eternal destination of a man who once truly believed in and trusted Christ, who thought, spoke, and lived as a Christian, and then later, in the end, fell into serious sin, apostasized and refused salvation in Christ?
Please understand that "of his own will" doesn't mean a will entirely cut off from God -- which is a dreadful, horrible thing to even think of --- but a will which is in itself a gift of God, yet truly his own.
God does not have the only Will in the universe. That would be the claim made by Islamic theologians, of Allah.
And here's another one:
Council of Trent, session 6, Canon 21: “If anyone says that Jesus Christ was given by God to men as a redeemer in whom they are to trust but not also as a lawgiver whom they are bound to obey, let him be anathema.”
“So, what is the eternal destination of a man who once truly believed in and trusted Christ, who thought, spoke, and lived as a Christian, and then later, in the end, fell into serious sin”
“If any man’s work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as through fire.”
If you agree with that statement from Trent you aren’t trusting Christ alone. Salvation conditioned on Christ’s work plus any necessary condition of performance (Rome’s sacraments for instance) stands in stark contrast to the biblical way of salvation. Works and grace absolutely cannot mix. If salvation comes by grace, then it’s not by works. And if it’s by works, then it’s not of grace (see Romans 11). We are saved by grace through the means of faith unto good works (see Ephesians 2:8-10). But it’s never faith that saves, it’s the object of faith—Christ—who saves.
As for the will, God has the only libertarian free will. Man’s will is in bondage to sin due to the Fall. No man will ever willingly choose Christ. No man in his natural state seeks after God. God has to make the man willing first. A man who is truly willing has been regenerated or born again. The New Birth is a miracle, an act of utter grace, performed in the heart by the Holy Spirit.
Your testimony is fully consistent with the God of the Bible.
“We are saved by grace through the means of faith unto good works (see Ephesians 2:8-10). But it’s never faith that saves, it’s the object of faith—Christ—who saves.”
+1
Canonizing a person and giving him/her a Feast Day on the Church's calendar invites us to remember the witness to Christ that that individual was on Earth. It calls us to look into how they loved and sacrificed for Him and how we can learn and be edified. That is the reason it is done.
That's not true. I am a member of the Body of Christ. I can say with Paul, "I live --- yet not 'I', but Christ lives in me." In Christ alone I trust.
Final impenitence --- refusal of mercy, refusal of redemption, denial of the Holy Spirit--- is the Sin against the Holy Spirit, which, if unrepented, Christ says is eternal, not forgivable. I trust His words in this, too.
It is the idea of anybody's guaranteed salvation without repentance for sin, which is starkly un-Biblical.
Friend, I believe this seems this way to you for perhaps, two reasons. While I can't read your mind, I put them out there for your thought:
1. Not differentiating between the saved and unsaved in regards to repentance.2. Not understanding exactly what salvation means.
The unsaved - I believe - cannot come to saving faith while refusing to repent of sin.
The saved have done this already and now have an entirely different kind of relationship with the Father. They are now "in Christ", "sons of God," "seated in the heavenlies with Christ," "sealed with the Holy Spirit as a pledge," and declared righteous in Him.
Repentance now for the saved is all about fellowship and not salvation.
So if a person — once “saved”, as you would put it, sometime in the past— dies in final impenitence and defiance against God, he does not lose salvation but loses fellowship?
How does that work?
I cannot take credit for what God Himself declared in inspired Scripture.
"Much more then, having now been justified by His blood,
we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him."For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son,
much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life." "Romans 5:9
Those who have received His gift via faith, were enemies of God.Those who have received His gift via faith, will be saved from God's wrath on His enemies.
Those who have received His gift via faith, were reconciled to God through the death of Christ.
Those who have received His gift via faith, will be saved by Christ's Life! It is an amazing promise of God.
dies in final impenitence and defiance against God, he does not lose salvation but loses fellowship?
That believer who does not repent from sin before death is still a child of God that received the amazing gift of salvation and still has it. It is guaranteed, according the words of Christ and according to other passages in Scripture.That person's salvation never depended on his efforts, nor good works.
He is no longer an enemy of God that will experience His wrath.
He is a son, who will be chastised and suffer loss in eternity, though as through fire.
What does he lose?
That person loses current fellowship with God throughout his life.
That person loses any rewards he could have had.
That person loses the peace of God in His daily life.
That person loses a life of blessing.
It is truly a loss and a terrible thing.
The gift of salvation (being saved), is amazingly wondrous! It is more than we could ever hope for.
Here is a list of what happens when a person entrusts himself to Christ alone for salvation, via faith:
THE POINT IN TIME WHEN WE BECAME A CHILD OF GOD (Aorist tense verbs):
1. Born anew, 1 Pet 1:23.
2. Delivered from the power of darkness, Col 1:13.
3. Transferred into the kingdom of God, Col 1:13.
4. Baptized into permanent union with Christ by the Holy Spirit, 1 Cor 12:13.
5. Sealed (permanently) by the Holy Spirit into union with Christ, Eph 1:13 & 14.
6. Indwelt (permanently) by the Holy Spirit, 1 Cor 3:16
7. Made spiritually alive (activated human spirit), and able to hear and believe the Gospel, Rom 8:7-10, 1 Cor 1:18 & 2:14.
8. Given spiritual gifts, 1 Cor 12:4-7.
9. Given everlasting life, 1 John 5:11.
10. Made to be complete in Christ, Col 2:10.
11. Called by the Gospel, 1 Thess 5:24.
12. Reconciled to God, 2 Cor 5:18 (Christ settled the enmity (hostility) and made peace between God and His children, whether we realize it or not).
13. Redeemed (from the slave market of sin), Col 1:14.
14. All sins forgiven through propitiation (covered), Rom 3:24 & 25.
15. Justified (declared righteous positionally), Rom 3:24.
16. Made to be dead with Christ (positionally) and made alive to God, Rom 6:8-10.
17. Sanctified (perfectly cleaned up and set apart positionally), 1 Cor 6:11.
18. Freed from the Old Testament Law, Gal 3:23-25.
19. Adopted as adult sons of God, Rom 8:15
20. Placed on a secure foundation, Eph 2:19-22.
21. Appointed as priests unto God (replacing the Old Testament priesthood), 1 Peter 2:5 & 9.
22. Given permanent access to God, Eph 2:18.
23. Became joint heirs with Christ and beneficiaries of all that God owns, Rom 8:15-17.
"Thank God for His Indescribable Gift!!"
May you place your entire faith in Christ alone, apart from any effort or self-righteousness or religious ritual.
May you share in eternal life and the assurance of salvation now, during your life.
You say "a believer who does not repent from sin before death is still a child of God that received the amazing gift of salvation and still has it."
And at the same time you say:
"He is a son, who will be chastised and suffer loss in eternity, though as through fire."
You said this is "in eternity".
So he experiences suffering "as through fire" in eternity, and as you remark, the result of his impenitence is "truly a loss and a terrible thing" --
Huh?
This person is "saved," yet experiences loss and suffering "as through fire" in eternity?
Sure doesn't sound like Heaven to me.
Scripture is clear as to what every single Christian will experience at the Bema Seat of Christ...
1 Corinthians 3:9-15 New International Version (NIV)9 For we are co-workers in God’s service; you are God’s field, God’s building.
10 By the grace God has given me, I laid a foundation as a wise builder, and someone else is building on it. But each one should build with care. 11 For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, 13 their work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each person’s work. 14 If what has been built survives, the builder will receive a reward. 15
If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved—even though only as one escaping through the flames.
So YES! the carnal believer remains a child of God.
So YES! the carnal believer will suffer loss in eternity, as declared by Scripture.
And YES! the carnal believer will face discipline here on earth.
As to what heaven will be like for him... It will be just as amazing as heaven can be. He will not, however, receive rewards. As to what losses the unrepentent *believer* will face here on earth, I will paste this list for you:
The Present Consequences of Sin or Disobedience
While the following is not exhaustive, it demonstrates that sin in the life of a believer is not a small issue.
(1) Loss of Fellowship With the Lord. Known sin in one’s life causes a loss of intimate fellowship with the Lord with the consequent loss of His joy and peace ().
(2) Divine Discipline From the Lord Here in Time. We should not think of discipline as punishment. Discipline from God is the gracious work of a Father to train and develop His children. Sometimes this comes in the form of various kinds of testing, trials, failure, and predicaments which He uses to correct us, to train us, and, if we have been going our own stubborn way, to increase our misery. The goal, however, is always to bring us back to Him (). If the believer remains unrepentant, this can lead to the sin unto death as with Ananias and Sapphira (), and some of the believers at Corinth who were failing to confess their sin and get right with the Lord (f; cf. also ).
(3) Loss of Power and Production. When we fail to deal with our sinful ways through honest confession, we grieve the Spirit’s person and quench His power in our lives. This means that rather than operating by faith in God’s provision, we end up operating in the energy of the flesh. We turn to our personal bag of tricks by which we seek to handle life (; ). This results in the works of the flesh and their awful and fruitless consequences (, 26). Without the abiding life, the life of faith and obedience to the Savior, we can do nothing ().
(4) Loss of Opportunities. When we are in charge of our lives rather than the Lord, we become insensitive to people and opportunities of ministry—we lack vision. Carnal believers have no vision other than their own personal agendas and selfish goals (cf. f).
(5) Loss of Desire and Motivation for Service. Carnal believers are occupied and controlled by their own self-centered desires (f). Perhaps this is a good place to discuss the concept of selfishness and rewards for some see an appeal to rewards as selfish and therefore carnal.
from: https://bible.org/article/doctrine-rewards-judgment-seat-bema-christ
The temporary, NON-eternal flames you (rightly) speak of, purifying the saved soul, are in some NON-eternal place or state. It is a place or state of purification. Which is the exact meaning of the term we use, "purgatory."
We only disagree on the "purifying the soul" and that it happens in eternity.
I say this because it is the actual works that are judged by flame and not the soul.
The believer now has a new nature, the life of Christ and is a tabernacle of the Holy Spirit. All because he has the righteousness of Christ imputed to him at the moment of saving faith.
I wish you well friend.
Purgatory is not eternal.
Bedtime for me. Good night and God bless you, aMPU.
We'll have to disagree. We see many things in Revelation that have a beginning and end.
Many blessings to you Mrs. Don-o
From my devotions this morning and related to our discussion about the basis of salvation - and the amazing change in identity and relationship the believer has with God, from the moment of salvation forward into eternity. Thanks be to Him for His indescribable gift!
Romans 5:6-15
6 When we were utterly helpless, Christ came at just the right time and died for us sinners. 7 Now, most people would not be willing to die for an upright person, though someone might perhaps be willing to die for a person who is especially good.
8 But God showed his great love for us by sending Christ to die for us while we were still sinners.
9 And since we have been made right in God’s sight by the blood of Christ, he will certainly save us from God’s condemnation. 10 For since our friendship with God was restored by the death of his Son while we were still his enemies, we will certainly be saved through the life of his Son. 11 So now we can rejoice in our wonderful new relationship with God because our Lord Jesus Christ has made us friends of God
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.