Posted on 05/23/2016 4:25:24 PM PDT by Frank Broom
Hoss
I'm not thrilled "going around" with you either but neither can I stand by and let you get away with false accusations about what I believe. Try to deal with it.
I totally agree, Hoss. If it weren’t for the times in my Christian life where I had trials, testings, heartaches, wants, sickness and needs and seen how my Heavenly Father resolved(s) these in His time and for His purposes, I doubt the faith I have would be as strong as it is. They have worked together for GOOD - even when not as I would have wanted them to at the time. Looking back, I see the hand of God and rejoice that HE is in control and not me. That old song is so true - If I never had a problem, I’d never know God could solve them. His strength is made perfect in my weakness and I have learned that in whatever state I am in to be content.
Hoss
Already dealt with it and you.
Good luck.
I do believe, however, that if we come to God in humble, child like faith that He is willing to heal us, as very clearly demonstrated by Jesus. Many are sick for many reasons, one primary one being a lack of belief in God's willingness to heal us. Another is that those who seek healing are almost always encumbered by a load of false doctrine which obfuscates their ability to have proper faith in our loving Father. Those who possess wonderful, correct doctrines are also steeped in the belief that they have been taught that God doesn't always want to heal.
The fact that The LORD is willing and able to heal doesn't mean that He often will. It is because of our failures and false beliefs, not because He isn't willing and able. The Bible says that He chastises every son that He loveth. Many are being chastised, but unwilling to accept the idea that they and their faith aren't always nearly perfect (pride), they do not seek The LORD for the reason/reasons that they are being chastised.
Also The LORD tests us. Many point to Job to prove that the righteous get sick and are troubled, but they forget the outcome. Job, after severe testing, was delivered. He was healed, became wealthy again and even had children to take the place of those children that he had lost. His ministry was also restored. After severe testing we find a very victorious outcome.
What did Job gain through his test. He had been spending his thoughts and energy justifying himself rather than The LORD. He gained a greater knowing of The LORD and His absolute and perfect righteousness. He learned that he and his righteousness was nothing compare to the perfect righteousness of God. He repented in sack cloth and ashes.
Like Job The LORD sends us through tests, some shorter and some longer. But it is the will of The LORD that we should come through them and be restored. The LORD will not perform His awesome wonders if we do not have humble, simple faith, knowing that He is willing out of His abundant love and also able to do mighty miracles for us, which as Jesus said brings Him glory.
“Scott, notice how these modern-day Pharisees, like the Pharisees of old and Satan himself, want you to focus on everything except the word of Christ. Just an encouragement - dont fall for it.”
Never will, I’ve seen too many testimonies of God’s unlimited love, grace and mercy. God’s kingdom is unlimited, man only gets in his own way from reaching it by setting up his own man made religious roadblocks.
“Therefore, I say to you, all things for which you pray and ask, believe that you have received them, and they shall be granted unto you.”—Mark 11: 24
Matthew 19:26 -
“with God ALL things are possible.”
John 5:19, the example Christ set for us all -
“Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.”
God bless!
Did you guys get all of this? I told Frank that I hope he wasn’t sorry for posting this because this stuff needs to be put out on the table and dealt with.
There’s one last thing I wanted to mention about the argument of these modern-day Pharisees. As you can see here, they love to attack you with the same thing they are doing - they are great distractors and deflectors, doing everything they can to get you off the track.
You’ll notice that they call it “cherry picking” when you cite various Scripture references to support your argument (of course they do the same thing). Citing support is how you put together a valid argument and citing Scripture regarding Biblical doctrine is of course valid. Scripture itself does this (Matt 8:16-17; John 20:36-37; and many other citings, especially in the Gospels).
But their “cherry picking” involves rejecting scriptures they don’t like or understand like, “by his stripes we are healed” (Is 53:5; 1 Pet 2:24; Matt 8:16-17; Is 53:5) and I wish above all things that you prosper and be in health even as your soul prospers (3 John 2).
Not everyone is meant to tangle with this crowd. Jesus said of the Pharisees, “Leave them alone” (Matt 15:14). But if we are going to do what Scripture says, to “earnestly contend for the faith that was once delivered to the saints” which is the gospel of the grace of Christ that includes health, wealth, and abundant blessings, we, like Jesus and Paul, will encounter these nay-sayers.
May God bless and strengthen you in your journey with Him.
Many Christians use Paul as their first vocal point when reading and interpreting Scripture. I think that a large part of the problem is that when you interpret Scripture all Scripture needs to first be understood and interpreted from the perspective of what Jesus said and did. Many Christians put Paul etc. above Jesus Christ and interpret Scripture from them before they come from the perspective of Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ was, is and always will be perfect. He had, while he was here, a full measure of The Spirit. He was/is and always will be full of grace and truth. It is he that we worship and follow.
Paul, for instance, wrote absolutely inspired words that came directly from God. But when we read, for instance, that he left someone somewhere sick it is a truthful, accurate description of what happened. It should not be used to form doctrine, especially doctrine that contradict the doctrine that Christ laid down. We do not know the happenstance around why he left someone somewhere sick. Also, Paul said that he looked through a glass as dimly. Christ did not, for he saw clearly. Paul said that he hadn’t already attained, but we know that Christ always was LORD and in a position of having attained.
We also know that the Books of Peter are inspired books of God. But Peter wasn’t always perfect. It is truthfully and rightfully recorded that he and Paul had controversies over Peter’s actions concerning being off in his interpretation of how the Jews and the gentiles were to relate to each other. Paul was right and Peter was rebuked because he was in error.
The point being is that we must be careful to not interpret events around the anointed such as Paul and Peter to necessarily be considered to reflect exact doctrine, but rather to be a perfect, truthful rendition of what took place. We interpret all events according the words, actions and doctrines of Jesus Christ himself. When He is always the vocal point then Scripture comes into clear view and is rightly divided.
Phl 3:12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.
Phl 3:13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,
3:14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.
Jesus said, "As the Father has sent me, so send I you" and the Acts are a demonstration of the same grace and power of the Holy Spirit through believers that Jesus had.
So we get the doctrine of the gospel of grace from the epistles, Romans being the most detailed explanation of the gospel of grace and Hebrews being the most detailed explanation of the gospel of the new covenant. Acts is a demonstration of the resurrection power of Jesus Christ in the life of believers and Acts is the only book without an "Amen" so that same life and power is available to us today.
The Gospels reveal Jesus Christ in the flesh, but remember, the New Covenant began AFTER the death and resurrection of Jesus, so the correct understanding and interpretation of the life of Jesus is found in what Jesus said AFTER his death and resurrection and in the epistles. That is why Peter said,
"even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him has written unto you; As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction." 1 Peter 3:15-16.
God bless.
The reality is that even in the NT days, not everyone was healthy. Scripture references have been posted showing that Paul and Timothy both dealt with physical afflictions and those are routinely ignored.
For those who think the kingdom is about physical, material comfort and prosperity.....
Romans 14:17 For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking but of righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit.
Revelation 3:14-22 And to the angel of the church in Laodicea write: The words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of God's creation.
I know your works: you are neither cold nor hot. Would that you were either cold or hot! So, because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of my mouth. For you say, I am rich, I have prospered, and I need nothing, not realizing that you are wretched, pitiable, poor, blind, and naked. I counsel you to buy from me gold refined by fire, so that you may be rich, and white garments so that you may clothe yourself and the shame of your nakedness may not be seen, and salve to anoint your eyes, so that you may see. Those whom I love, I reprove and discipline, so be zealous and repent. Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and eat with him, and he with me. The one who conquers, I will grant him to sit with me on my throne, as I also conquered and sat down with my Father on his throne. He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.
That's where you get into trouble...Jesus is always the vocal point whether he said something himself or he picked someone else to say it for him...New and changing doctrine was given to Paul by Jesus Christ to reveal the Gentile church and to reveal to the Gentile church...
'Doctrinally', when Jesus was on the earth, what he taught the Jewish people was forbidden to be taken to the Gentiles...The 'Great Commission' was only for the Jewish people, NOT the Gentiles...
What Jesus was teaching these people was the details about the coming Jewish Kingdom on earth with Jesus as the Messiah sitting on the Throne of David in Jerusalem...(That's the reason the world is determined to get Israel out of Jerusalem, at any cost)...
When Jesus comes back he will set up this physical Kingdom...Most of the Old Testament speaks prophetically of this time in the physical Kingdom which is to come...
The 'church' is a spiritual kingdom...We will have a role in this physical kingdom but it is not the same as those who will live during this physical kingdom...
After the Jews rejected their Messiah Jesus created the Gentile church...Jesus came up with different rules for the Gentile church that he revealed to the apostle Paul...Those rules are not exactly the same as those given to the Jews (and others) who will go on into the physical kingdom...
The health, wealth, and prosperity folks don't ever seem to pay much attention to Hebrews 11:32-40
Hebrews 11:32-40And what more shall I say? For time would fail me to tell of Gideon, Barak, Samson, Jephthah, of David and Samuel and the prophetswho through faith conquered kingdoms, enforced justice, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions, quenched the power of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, were made strong out of weakness, became mighty in war, put foreign armies to flight. Women received back their dead by resurrection. Some were tortured, refusing to accept release, so that they might rise again to a better life.
Others suffered mocking and flogging, and even chains and imprisonment. They were stoned, they were sawn in two, they were killed with the sword. They went about in skins of sheep and goats, destitute, afflicted, mistreatedof whom the world was not worthywandering about in deserts and mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth.
And all these, though commended through their faith, did not receive what was promised, since God had provided something better for us, that apart from us they should not be made perfect.
I use the word 'faithing', verb form of 'to faithe' because it conveys more of what having the kingdom within the human spirit is about. It is an action state, not a passive state. And as an active state, when God puts the spark of His Holy Spirit in a born from above believer, HE raises that newborn up in the way that they should go. THAT is the faithing processing which transforms the newborn into an adult member of God's Family established by and through Christ Jesus. THAT is the Grace of God in Christ. If you meet someone who is not faithing in Jesus, it is a good bet they are not yet born from above.
How long will deny the doctrine of Scripture and replace it with your own false doctrine?
Scripture denied by you Pharisees and Saducees:
Beloved, I wish above all things that thou may prosper and be in health, even as your soul prospers. 3 John 1:2.
He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things? Romans 8:32.
As far as the Kingdom of God goes, have you not read:
Behold the fowls of the air: for they sow not, neither do they reap, nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not much better than they? Which of you by taking thought can add one cubit unto his stature? And why take ye thought for raiment? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they toil not, neither do they spin: And yet I say unto you, That even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these. Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which to day is, and to morrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O you of little faith? Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed? (For after all these things do the Gentiles seek:) for your heavenly Father knows that ye have need of all these things. But seek first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you. Matt 6:26-33.
That you may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom. Luke 22:30.
But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom. Matthew 26:29; Mark 14:25; Luke 22:18.
preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing every sickness and every disease among the people Matt 9:35; Luke 9:11.
And heal the sick that are therein, and say unto them, The kingdom of God is come near to you. Luke 10:9.
The point of Romans 14 is to not grieve your weaker brother who is offended by what he considers unclean meat. The point of the Kingdom of God is in its righteous, peace, and joy. But meat and drink are certainly not excluded from the Kingdom of God as Scripture attests.
buy from me gold refined by fire, so that you may be rich Revelation 3:18.
But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for you shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for you neither go in yourselves, neither suffer them that are entering to go in. Matthew 23:13.
Meant to include you on post #216.
Hoss
Matthew 26:2 7Then he took a cup, gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink from it, all of you, 28 because this is my blood of the new covenant that is being poured out for many people for the forgiveness of sins.
Did you catch that? Jesus told them on the night before going to the cross that the pouring out of His blood was for the forgiveness of sins. And how do we receive that new covenant? By faith. And what is the new covenant? The forgiveness of sins, based solely in the shed Blood of Jesus Christ. He didn't pour our His blood so some devil-servants can claim prosperity and all sorts of carnal goodies. Sin is a disease. The shedding of His blood, where the thorn crown broke the scalp, where the flagellum ripped open His flesh, and where the nails crashed through His body, THERE is the shedding of blood. When the spear pierced His side and blood and water pour forth, THERE is the shedding of His blood. THAT is the basis of the new covenant and JESUS instituted it the night before He went to the cross.
You are writing falsehoods and accusing Christians of being Pharisees because they will not ascent to your deceptions. But then, these deceptions aren't yours, are they! They are of the devil. Strange gospels are always from the devil.
The Resurrection affirmed what Jesus instituted on the night before He was betrayed. Between the instituting of this new covenant and the affirmation of it, THERE was the shedding of blood for us and for our salvation, not for carnal prosperity.
The shedding of blood, His Blood, sealed the new covenant. You add carnality to what is a Spiritual New Covenant. Have you ever stopped to ask yourself why it is a new covenant ... not the Only covenant? The devil doesn't want you to figure THAT ONE out, fer shur ...
You say: The shedding of blood, His Blood, sealed the new covenant.
Well, you got something right.
Then you say: new covenant ... not the Only covenant
But God says: When God speaks of a new covenant, it means he has made the first one obsolete. It is now out of date and will soon disappear. Heb 8:13 (NLT).
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