Sola Historia?

His by Grace ^ | 2/9/2015 | Timothy G. Enloe

[boatbums]

Good answer!

[boatbums]

We all agree with the authority of scripture. What is in dispute is your claim of sola scriptura. All of your post point to the authority of scripture but not to the sola part of your claim.

The phrase "sola Scriptura" is not in Scripture. No one is disputing that. But there are many things Christians believe that, though a precise word may not be found, the concept and the clear teaching IS there (i.e.; Trinity). If, as you say, "we" all agree with the authority of Scripture and believe its authority is because it is Divinely-inspired, then please demonstrate anything else which meets or exceeds that same authority of Divine inspiration (God-breathed).

What I see most often here is a misunderstanding of what the term sola Scriptura means. Here's a good definition:

The doctrine of sola scriptura, simply stated, is that the Scriptures and the Scriptures alone are sufficient to function as the regula fide, the "rule of faith" for the Church. All that one must believe to be a Christian is found in Scripture and in no other source. That which is not found in Scripture is not binding upon the Christian conscience. To be more specific, I provide the following definition: The Bible claims to be the sole and sufficient rule of faith for the Christian Church. The Scriptures are not in need of any supplement. Their authority comes from their nature as God-breathed revelation. Their authority is not dependent upon man, Church or council. The Scriptures are self-consistent, self-interpreting, and self-authenticating. The Christian Church looks at the Scriptures as the only and sufficient rule of faith and the Church is always subject to the Word, and is constantly reformed thereby.

Positively, the doctrine teaches that the Bible is sufficient to function as the sole, infallible rule of faith for the Church. Negatively, it denies the existence of any other rule of faith as being necessary for the man of God. (http://vintage.aomin.org/SANTRAN.html

When we are challenged to show where Jesus ever told his followers to "write a book", we cannot help but be reminded that Jesus referred to THE book quite frequently to dispute against false teaching. We have His example of using the Divinely-inspired writings of the Old Testament as His authority. Why, then, wouldn't Jesus have expected His followers to preserve His teachings and further revelation of the Holy Spirit in writing, too, and that they be used as the rule of the Christian faith? He did say, after all:

Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away. (Matt. 24:35)

And Isaiah said before that:

The grass withers and the flowers fall, but the word of our God endures forever." (Isa. 40:8)

[boatbums]

>>What with the way Catholicism has changed and morphed over the centuries, there is simply no credibility to the claim that Catholics make that the church is infallible. It simply cannot be trusted to be consistent.<<

Oh good grief, fallen away Catholics have ABSOLUTELY no concept of Catholicism which is probably why they are fallen away.....pathetic.

On the contrary, Christians that have come out of the false gospel religion of Catholicism have a perfectly good concept of what is the truth because God has opened our eyes and hearts to see the difference. What I call pathetic is the inability of some dyed-in-the-wool Roman Catholics who have ABSOLUTELY no concept of the thought that Jesus Christ CAN and IS able to save completely - to the uttermost - those who come to God through Him (Heb. 7:25) and without the Roman Catholic church. That thought seems to petrify them!

[boatbums]

Steak on Friday/// One of my favorites and the rule (just a rule) of abstinance was lifted many years ago. It was just to instill, in faithful Catholics, a slight sense of a penitential act to maybe help remove the overwhelming sin of pride that so many exhibit.....just saying.

Only for some, that act of "penitence" WAS, in itself, an act of pride. Jesus told His followers:

Whenever you fast, do not put on a gloomy face as the hypocrites do, for they neglect their appearance so that they will be noticed by men when they are fasting. Truly I say to you, they have their reward in full. "But you, when you fast, anoint your head and wash your face so that your fasting will not be noticed by men, but by your Father who is in secret; and your Father who sees what is done in secret will reward you. (Matt. 6:16-18)

My Mom's family was from New Orleans. Having to eat seafood on Friday was a TREAT! ☺

[Mark17]

No, no, no, you can’t point to scripture alone for your authority for the Catholic Church. Saying it’s authoritative for one thing but not for another.

Affirmative sir. Some people want it both ways. They think they are allowed to pick and choose. Either all scripture is authoritative, or none of it is. Who gets to choose?

It’s all double speak by Catholics.

Affirmative again sir. It reminds me of something.

Gloom, despsair and agony on me.
Deep dark depression, excessive misery.
If it weren't for DOUBLE SPEAK they'd have no speak at all
Gloom, despair and agony on me.

[Mark17]

122, 123, and 124, GOOD posts, all three. If this was a hockey game, you scored a hat trick. 😄😇😃😃😄n

[metmom]

Steak on Friday/// One of my favorites and the rule (just a rule) of abstinance was lifted many years ago. It was just to instill, in faithful Catholics, a slight sense of a penitential act to maybe help remove the overwhelming sin of pride that so many exhibit.....just saying.

It clearly didn't work.

[hockeyCEO]

If you want to answer your own questions, this gets pretty pointless.

Again - what did He write down. The question was about Jesus.

I didn’t ask when was the book of Wisdom penned, only that it foretold of the Passion. Read Wisdom 2: 12-20

[metmom]

The phrase "sola Scriptura" is not in Scripture. No one is disputing that. But there are many things Christians believe that, though a precise word may not be found, the concept and the clear teaching IS there (i.e.; Trinity).

Such as......

Show me in the Bible where the word Bible is used. Show me in the Bible where the word Trinity is found.

So then, by that reasoning, (because a specific word or phrase is not found written down in Scripture it's not Scriptural), the Bible must not be “scriptural” and the Holy Trinity must not "scriptural".

Then that must mean that these things are not Scriptural either.

trinity

catholic

pope

eucharist

sacraments

annulment

assumption

immaculate conception

mass

purgatory

magisterium

infallible

confirmation

crucifix

rosary

mortal sin

venial sin

perpetual virginity

apostolic succession

indulgences

hyperdulia

catechism

real presence

transubstantiation

liturgy

free will

holy water

monstrance

sacred tradition

apostolic succession

Benefactress

Mediatrix

Queen of Heaven

Mother of God

beatific vision

[hockeyCEO]

I was saying that you don’t know what you are talking about, which you make even more abundantly clear.

The Holy Sacrifice of the Mass transcends time - get it? It goes back to Calvary.

Learn the faith.

[hockeyCEO]

Thanks you. Blackhawks - yes.

Too bad you are a former Catholic.

The priest and nuns were correct, but not complete. The Holy Sacrifice of the Mass transcends time. Jesus died only one time. The Mass goes back to to that moment in time of Calvary.

[hockeyCEO]

You actually argue in favor of the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass transcending time. Read 1366 and 1367 CCC again:

1366 The Eucharist is thus a sacrifice because it re-presents (makes present) the sacrifice of the cross, because it is its memorial and because it applies its fruit:

[Christ], our Lord and God, was once and for all to offer himself to God the Father by his death on the altar of the cross, to accomplish there an everlasting redemption. But because his priesthood was not to end with his death, at the Last Supper “on the night when he was betrayed,” [he wanted] to leave to his beloved spouse the Church a visible sacrifice (as the nature of man demands) by which the bloody sacrifice which he was to accomplish once for all on the cross would be re-presented, its memory perpetuated until the end of the world, and its salutary power be applied to the forgiveness of the sins we daily commit.187

1367 The sacrifice of Christ and the sacrifice of the Eucharist are one single sacrifice: “The victim is one and the same: the same now offers through the ministry of priests, who then offered himself on the cross; only the manner of offering is different.” “In this divine sacrifice which is celebrated in the Mass, the same Christ who offered himself once in a bloody manner on the altar of the cross is contained and is offered in an unbloody manner.”188

[Mark17]

Steak on Friday/// One of my favorites and the rule (just a rule) of abstinance was lifted many years ago.

BTW TC, I forgot to ask. I was told by the priests and nuns, that it was a mortal sin to eat meat on Friday. Now, I understand, when many people are involved, there will be variations in doctrines, but that is what they told me. Malachi 3:6 says I am the Lord, I change not. I know you say it was just a rule, whatever that means, but I was told it was a mortal sin. So, if it was a mortal sin at one time, did God change His mind, so it wan't a mortal sin anymore? Is it just a venial sin now, or no sin at all? I always envied my evangelical friends, who were eating good meat, while I was stuck eating perch. I hated perch.

[metmom]

The Holy Sacrifice of the Mass transcends time. Jesus died only one time. The Mass goes back to to that moment in time of Calvary.

Show us where that is found in the Bible that the Catholic church claims it wrote.

Or is that your own personal interpretation of something Catholic?

[Mark17]

Thanks you. Blackhawks - yes

They lost in a shoutout tonight. I never liked the shootout. One of the reasons is, if they don't have shootouts in the play offs, why have it in the regular season? If it still tied after 5 minutes sudden death, give each a point and end it, like the way it used to be. I was able to go ice skating a few months ago at the Mall of Asia. I showed em how it's done. 😇

[metmom]

transcends time

Hmmmm...

I don't see the phrase "transcends time" in there anywhere.

Show us where that exact phrase is found.

Or perhaps it's YOPIOCCC?

[Mark17]

Or is that your own personal interpretation of something Catholic?

LOL, there they go again, interpreting scripture without a priest to tell them what it says. Do you think they will ever learn? 😄😄😃

[hockeyCEO]

Sure:

1366 The Eucharist is thus a sacrifice because it re-presents (makes present) the sacrifice of the cross, because it is its memorial and because it applies its fruit: ...

transcend: be or go beyond the range or limits of

Jesus died only once. The Eucharist is made present, it transcends time,

[hockeyCEO]

That’s awesome. I’ve pretty much retired. Maybe I’ll get back when the kids are grown. One the bright side, only 1 more visit to the oral surgeon :)

[hockeyCEO]

This argument is off on many levels. Who says “only what Christ said in the gospels is what Christ taught?” That is the argument we Catholic use against being Bible-only.

Don’t confuse worship and prayer. Catholics only worship God. We can worship in the form of prayer, but that would only be to God.

I think you refer to Catholics praying to the Saints or to Mary. In this case, it is to ask them to pray to God for us. It is the same way someone would ask a friend or buddy to ‘put in a good word for me.’

Extrapolate the tradition of men from Scripture? Nonsense. The rest is a rambling, incoherent rant ending with in a self-imposed justification. Rubbish.