Posted on 01/28/2015 7:00:21 AM PST by Stingray
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>> “The identity of the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse has mystified and intrigued people for centuries” <<
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Sorry, but no, only those that don’t accept the plain words of the beginning of the Revelation have any difficulty.
The revelation events began to run shortly after it was given to John in 91 or 92 AD.
It signaled the end of the apostolic era, and the beginning of Yeshua’s schedule of breaking the seals off of Satan’s title deed to planet Earth. It was to be a 2000 year process, the end of which is approaching.
We are in the 5th seal period, nearing the 6th seal.
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“And in a futurist understanding they are going to be resurrected to see this avenging... I thought you had a more complex argument than this.”
Nope. Not when you have Jesus saying this to His disciples in Matthew:
For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father’s glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what they have done. “Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.” Matthew 16:27-28
No less than Christ Himself said He would come in His Father’s glory (read up on what that means in the OT) While some of them lived, not in the resurrected sense but in the still-living-on-earth, flash-and-blood sense.
Or perhaps you think Christ was mistaken?
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The problem with basic preterism is that it turns Yeshua’s millennial reign into a complete failure, and violates the timing of the grandest event in all of time, the First Resurrection, the event that marks the end of the rule of men, which is the beginning of the millennial reign.
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“The bible and faith harmonize.”
Only when one’s faith is based on what the Bible actually says. And if I have done nothing else, I have tried to impress on people that the futurist’s understanding of apostolic eschatology is wrong to the point that a number of cults - some dangerous to their adherents, have sprung from it.
“Sorry, but no, only those that don’t accept the plain words of the beginning of the Revelation have any difficulty.
The revelation events began to run shortly after it was given to John in 91 or 92 AD.
It signaled the end of the apostolic era, and the beginning of Yeshua’s schedule of breaking the seals off of Satan’s title deed to planet Earth. It was to be a 2000 year process, the end of which is approaching.
We are in the 5th seal period, nearing the 6th seal.”
Can’t agree with a word you wrote on this. Sorry.
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Matthew 16 is not about the first resurrection!
It was speaking of the transfiguration.
Matthew 24 is where he begins to speak about the end of the rule of men, and the first resurrection.
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“The problem with basic preterism is that it turns Yeshua’s millennial reign into a complete failure, and violates the timing of the grandest event in all of time, the First Resurrection, the event that marks the end of the rule of men, which is the beginning of the millennial reign.”
No, the problem with preterism (for the futurist) is that it places the words of Christ and the apostles in their proper place, and destroys all the false teaching that has sprung up around apostolic eschatology.
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No surprise, but you will agree soon.
WE are presently on the cusp of the slide that will place the last Earthly world ruler in power.
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“Matthew 16 is not about the first resurrection!
It was speaking of the transfiguration.”
Where was the judgment Christ promised at the Transfiguration?
Further, about a week after the Transfiguration, Jesus said this to the Sanhedrin:
“You have said so,” Jesus replied. “But I say to all of you: From now on you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven.” Matthew 26:64
Having said essentially the same thing to the Sanhedrin in Matthew 26 that He said to His disciples in Matthew 16 rules out the Transfiguration as the fulfillment of Matthew 16:27-28.
Get it?
“No surprise, but you will agree soon.
“WE are presently on the cusp of the slide that will place the last Earthly world ruler in power.”
I know that’s what you believe. I know that’s not what the Bible teaches.
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Preterism is just as false as dispensationalism.
The seal events have been playing out on the world stage for 2000 years.
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Have these things already taken place ?
1 Thessalonians 4:16-17
“16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.”
Jesus said it would happen while some His disciples still lived. Don’t you believe Him?
“Preterism is just as false as dispensationalism.
The seal events have been playing out on the world stage for 2000 years.”
I know that’s what you believe. I also know that’s not what Christ or His apostles taught.
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It is exactly what the Bible teaches. (to those that read it for understanding, rather than manipulation)
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>> “Jesus said it would happen while some His disciples still lived.” <<
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He said no such thing.
The event that he referred to that some disciples would witness was the transfiguration..
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There was no judgement promised until the end of all time!
That judgement is at least 1000 years away.
You may not “get it” until its too late, the way you’re going.
The question was a yes/no question.
You imply that they did happen instead of explicitly responding yes, so I’ll take your response as a yes.
Can you point to Biblical evidence that ALL of those things happened ?
Where is it recorded it the Bible that those things happened ?
Cite chapter and verse.
The dead in Christ rose - and those which are alive were caught up together in the clouds.
That sounds like somewhere someone who have noted that in history. Sounds like a rather momentous event.
Dead people rising into the clouds, living people rising into the clouds.
Yet nowhere in recorded history and nowhere in the Bible is there a record of that momentous event having happened.
Please cite historical evidence that that event has already happened.
“Revelation was written around 96AD...”
Revelation was written no later than 68 AD, and here’s why:
“This calls for a mind with wisdom. The seven heads are seven hills on which the woman sits. They are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; but when he does come, he must remain for only a little while. Revelation 17:9-10
Jerusalem, kike Rome, is a city built on seven hills. But that’s not really relevant to the dating of the book. This, however, is:
“They are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; but when he does come, he must remain for only a little while.”
The progression of the Roman Caesars is as follows:
1. Julius
2. Augustus
3. Tiberias
4. Caligula
5. Claudius
6. Nero (under whom Christians were first persecuted by Rome)
7. Galba (whose reign lasted only 7 months and 7 days.)
John wrote that the “sixth is”, meaning that Nero was still alive: the same Nero who had Paul beheaded and Peter crucified upside down.
Now, some will argue that John was on Patmos under Domitian’s reign. Robert Young, cited below, argues otherwise.
Robert Young, author of Young’s Analytical Concordance, wrote a commentary on Revelation published prior to 1885 wherein he makes the following statement: “It was written in Patmos about A.D. 68, whither John had been banished by Domitius Nero, as stated in the title of the Syriac version of the book; and with this concurs the express statement of Irenaeus in A.D. 175, who says it happened in the reign of Domitianou - i.e., Domitius (Nero). Sulpicius, Orosius, etc., stupidly mistaking Dimitianou for Domitianikos, supposed Irenaeus to refer to Domitian, A.D. 95, and most succeeding writers have fallen into the same blunder. The internal testimony is wholly in favor of the early date.”
http://www.preteristcentral.com/Dating%20the%20Book%20of%20Revelation.html
Now, what was Nero’s given name?
Lucius Domitius Ahenobarbus, the future Nero, was born on 15 December 37 in Antium (modern Anzio and Nettuno[11]), near Rome.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nero
The belief that Domitian placed John on Patmos in the mid-90’s ultimately boils down to the similarity between the names Domitious and Domitian, and a typo. Nero placed John there.
“>> “Jesus said it would happen while some His disciples still lived.” <<
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He said no such thing.
The event that he referred to that some disciples would witness was the transfiguration..”
Already addressed here:
Where was the judgment Christ promised at the Transfiguration?
Further, about a week after the Transfiguration, Jesus said this to the Sanhedrin:
“You have said so,” Jesus replied. “But I say to all of you: From now on you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven.” Matthew 26:64
Having said essentially the same thing to the Sanhedrin in Matthew 26 that He said to His disciples in Matthew 16 rules out the Transfiguration as the fulfillment of Matthew 16:27-28.
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