Posted on 01/06/2015 5:13:00 AM PST by metmom
Indeed, you might find this quote from Einstein interesting:
I agree with Roger Penrose (mathematical physicist, Oxford) - namely that we need a new kind of physics to resolve the obvious challenges of quantum entanglement (non-locality at distance) and more.
Quantum entanglement is where the quantum states of two or more objects have to be described with reference to one another regardless of the extent to which they may be spatially separated. Which is to say the measurement of one of two entangled photons will determine the other even if it is 10 kilometers away, on the moon, in another galaxy, etc.
In four dimensions (one temporal, three spatial) it violates the speed of light limitation. And as Penrose pointed out, it also suggests a paradox when both of the entangled photons are simultaneously measured. With two time dimensions, there is no issue.
By the way, because experiments (up to 10 kilometers) confirmed the phenomenon – there was a great deal of hope for superluminal communications. However, the no-cloning theorem forbids creation of identical copies of an unknown quantum state therefore no error correction, computing or communications at superluminal speeds. Even so, the non-cloning theorem and quantum entanglement offers a great solution for quantum cryptography, i.e. no one could “eavesdrop” on the quantum superluminal cryptographic key. The bottom line is that one must lay aside presuppositions of a timeline, arrow of time, speed of light limitation, light cones etc. when dealing with two or more time dimension theories.
From a theological point of view, the theories also suggest that God - being beyond space and time - sees past present and future all at once and moreover, that He has creative power over physical causation "in" space/time of however many dimensions. For instance, a change in the future instantly effects the past and present because they are concurrent on the time plane (or cube, etc.) And such a change would obviously be completely undetectable to observers "in" space and time.
No doubt such speculations involving two or more time dimensions have been fodder for many science fiction scripts as well as mysticism involving precognition, retro-cognition, remote viewing, etc.
But there are credible theories involving multiple time dimensions. Vafa's (geometric physics, Harvard) f-theory follows the Kaluza/Klein compactification model for extra dimensions (string theories) whereas P.S. Wesson's entails higher dimensional dynamics. The Wesson (physics and astronomy, Waterloo) Five Dimensional Relativity Two Times theory posits that the 1080 particles in the observable four dimensional universe are actually multiply imaged from as little as a single particle in an expanded time-like fifth dimension.
Fascinating theories ...
Yep. These dudes really have got themselves trapped into a truth-suffocating intellectual box of their own making. Good luck to them, this class of highly-educated moral morons who, because they consider themselves the "brights," are just "naturally determined," on Darwinian grounds I imagine, to rule the rest of us, whom they call the "dims".
[At least as Richard Dwkins and Daniel Dennett imagine it, in their "hands-across-the Pond" assault on Christianity.... This is a public fact.]
The hard and fast box into which these moral morons have gotten themselves entrapped is the idea that only those events in Reality that can be directly observed and measured count as "real."
The next step is to say that entities subject to the second law of thermodynamics definitely qualify as "real" — because they are measurable in terms of observable thermodynamic effects. [Talk about "circular reasoning!"]
Well, if all you want to do is explore the problems of "heat death," then have a good time with such intellectual prescriptive offerings!!!
What does anything of this have to do with the question: "What is Life?" Isn't that supposed to be the main inquiry of the biological sciences? Or am I just a naive person?
The classical term for a thinker committed to this reductive propensity of thought is idiotes [Cicero]; or nabal [Hebrew scripture]. "Nabal" translates as: "The man who says in his heart, 'There is no God.'" In Cicero, idiotes translates as: The man who refuses to apperceive Reality: He is the man who embodies the character of aspernatio rationalis, of "contemptuous disdain for reason."
Nowadays, practically no one understands such insights, nor the concerns for personal and social order that they implicate.
Anyhoot and whatever. I do believe you are entirely correct in thinking that there is a companion coordinate system engaging the three-of-space-and-one-of-time dimensional model which enjoys so much currency in contemporary science. Notwithstanding the revolutions of relativity and quantum theory of the past century. Whatever these theories proposed, their import apparently is still largely undigested by the biological scientific community at large nowadays.
But I do believe you show a "direction" into which the scientific community might move to break the shackles of reductionism, and actually "get somewhere" in the real, that is to say truthful, understanding of the natural world....
Thank you ever so much, dear brother in Christ, for sharing your wonderful, thought-provoking insights!!!
So...... eternity is NOT Possible.?..
because if eternity future is possible eternity PAST must also be possible..
AND if eternity past is possible... there might not have been a beginning..
There are ramifications to everything.. that is to say.. "EXPANDING" might be the "wrong word" for whats goin' on..
Maybe; revolving, speeding up, dimension shift, or "something else"...
Still, it seems that "eternity," by definition, cannot be measured in terms of "past" and "future." So what, exactly, are you trying to "measure" here? A fleeting "present?" How does one "measure" that which is "fleeting?"
Guess we need to consult Zeno on that "paradox!"
Hope all is well with you, my dear brother. Please say "HI!" to H. (assuming he's still on the scene....) May Christ's love and light and grace be with you!
If the most recent work in zero point field is any indication, we have an example of a ‘smaller’ coordinate system which is impinged/in reaction with/by our coordinate system. Actual Physicist calculations are now indicating that inertia and (therefore) gravity arise from the ‘effects’ of the zero point field which fills the entire Universe at sub-sub-atomic level. Could it be that energy is the result of the zero point coordinate system impinging a greater coordinate system in which our reality arises? It is looking more and more like that is in fact what reality is all about. And then we have the greater coordinate system of the spirit and the scenes of Jesus interacting across that coordinate system from our coordinate system. ... But I’m an old man ...
The question you and I so often posed on this forum was "What is the difference between life and non-life/death in nature." Strangely, the correspondents could easily list what life looks like but not what life "is."
I'm sure you'll remember the thought experiments. Take an amoeba and try to figure out what it "is" - but to do this, one must kill it. Obviously, the whole was greater than the sum of the parts.
Likewise we discussed breaking down an imaginary rabbit. At some point of doing this to the ill fated imaginary rabbit, it was no longer alive and yet our correspondents were unable to define what was removed that the made the difference between life and death.
Ultimately we gravitated to Shannon (father of information theory) and his definition of information, i.e. information is the reduction of uncertainty in the receiver or molecular machine as it moves from a before state to an after state. It is the communication itself, the action, not the message.
When an autonomous thing "in" nature is successfully communicating (information) it is alive - if it no longer does or never could, it is not alive.
Indeed, the polio virus being created in a lab using the information content off the internet (post 158) stands as evidence. They obtained the message - RNA - and used materials to communicate that message. Voila - polio!
So, I imagine good and evil are not real to these people, then.
Their good is what they see benefiting themselves.
Evil is that which does not.
Situational justification.
In my view, we should consider the word "timeless" when thinking of God the Creator and "no counting" when thinking of eternity.
Some might be more comfortable calling it a "universal now."
Consider the photon, it travels a "null path" - for the photon no time elapses though certainly observers of the photon (from their reference frame) sense time passing while observing the photon. The photon is in a universal now or a no counting of time. The observers are not.
Likewise, when thinking in terms of universal nows or no counting of time - past, present and future are meaningless. Everything is now.
Space/time on the other hand is a continuum. It is relentlessly physical. There was a beginning of real space and real time and no matter how far one moves the goal post to prior universes, there is always a beginning of real space and real time. That is the poison pill to physical cosmologies except of course for Tegmark's Level IV which is radical Platonism.
Another interesting point is that physical cosmologists presuppose that the physical laws/constants of this universe would apply to prior ones. That is wishful thinking.
Also there is the issue of origin of physical causation per se and inertia for that matter - not to mention space, time and energy.
In that view, the physical brain is the murderer or philanthropist not a person, that's just an epiphenomenon. LOLOL!
Thank you so much for sharing your insights, dear brother in Christ!
But, how often will they in their illogical lives exclaim about something, "Oh, Good!" or "Oh, that's Awful!"
Real.
BTW, qualia must stump them. Qualia are things that can be experienced but cannot be conveyed, e.g. love/hate, pain/pleasure.
If it were the mechanical Newtonian universe they envision, such things could not exist. Indeed, they can't in their view because they are not strictly physical.
Good point.. made.. while I did my stand up routine..
Measure LOVE.... even LIFE... Joy... Hate?..
So many, measure so much with no way to know they may be wrong.. partially wrong, or even partially correct...
Could be primates are not really very good accountants..
This notion of different coordinates systems should not surprise a Christian. Daniel Chapter five shows it, as well as Jesus leaving the tomb. Phillip may have experienced it also with the end of his explanation to the Ethiopian. And there are several more examples in Old and New Testament.
Second Reality is like a mouse in a maze...
First reality is totally FREE..
Things are easily measured in a maze..
Which brings to mind.. can humans measure anything accurately..
I know a bit poetic but just being human may be a second reality..
To wit; a human that dies may enter first reality..
You know there may be "qualities" of second reality's..
i.e. some better than others.. higher digs as mazes..
If we had four spatial dimension ability, for instance, we'd be able to remove the contents of a box without opening it!
And it becomes even more exciting when we consider multiple time dimensions.
I'll avoid the "second reality" term as it has a specific meaning in Voegelin/Musil philosophy, roughly an imaginary world a person conjures in lieu of the actual world.
But indeed, the reality we mortals experience with our severely limited 4D minds and vision (3 space and 1 time) is but only one reality. When we graduate from this one (or phase change following Wesson's theory) - we will experience a different reality.
For us Christians, it will be heaven. And according to Revelation there will be a new heaven after that. And, of course, some of us Christians expect a stay in purgatory first. Some expect a long sleep first.
And also according to Scripture, there will be other, unpleasant, destinations...
I am presently more involved with establishing the notion that lesser coordinate systems imprint the larger coordinate systems, as in a photon, which exists in a lesser coordinate system impacts a greater coordinate system precisely because dimension Time and dimension Space have variable expressions, such as point, linear, planar, volume, moment, past, present, future. The Universe as a whole ‘thing’ is a realm of future/volume. ‘Lesser’ coordinate systems exist within this future/volume and interact between coordinate systems via some energy exchange medium that we might call the ‘zero point field’.
For lurkers: Holographic Universe Experiment Begins
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