All Souls, Purgatory and the Bible

Da Mihi Animas ^ | November 2 2014

[verga]

You are wrong.

[Resettozero]

We call that “in between” situation “Purgatory” where souls who didn’t do the reparation for sins committed on earth will do their reparation.

Even having fallen asleep in Christ, you feel more needs to be done still.

RCC teaching...I know. But not to be found in the New Testament.

[boatbums]

The work of our salvation is not completed until our love increases and we are filled, not just imputed, with the fruit of righteousness that come through Jesus Christ. Concerned only with our legalistic justification, Protestantism fails to recognize the greater mission of Jesus Christ, our sanctification.

It isn't a failure of Protestantism but that of Roman Catholicism that presumes there is anything within the believer - of himself - to merit or appropriate sanctification as well as justification. We were washed, sanctified and justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God. (I Cor. 6:11) We have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all (Heb. 10:10). To assert we must suffer after death for "temporal" penalties due for our sins remaining on our souls is to negate the whole purpose of the cross. We are washed, we are sanctified, we are justified because of Christ and it is our faith in Him through which God GIFTS to us eternal life.

If Purgatory was a doctrine taught by Jesus or the Apostles - something necessary for us to know - it would have been clearly presented in God's word. It is not just our legalistic justification that we rejoice in - though that IS a major issue - but a complete imputation of Christ's righteousness for us - that everything we do we do for Him, for HIS glory, and not our own. No man may be able to boast in His presence, it is all because of grace.

[Resettozero]

We Catholics believe in the concept of Purgatory. You, apparently, do not.

ESV, Hebrews 9, beginning with verse 26b:

...he has appeared once for all at the end of the ages to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

27 And just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment,

28 so Christ, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to deal with sin but to save those who are eagerly waiting for him.

[crusty old prospector]

Oh, like no one has ever left Catholicism and become Protestant. I know several hundred. And the list goes on and on and on...

[Rides_A_Red_Horse]

Well played!

[goodwithagun]

As I posted on another thread, I’m becoming Catholic because of FReeper Catholic bashers. I was appalled when I discovered the nastiness and hatred toward Catholics. It was is un-Christian indeed. I started deeply researching the divide between Catholics and Protestants in an effort to discover what I, as a Protestant, was supposed to be so angry and hostile about. Over the years a subtle change came over me, and with much prayer I decided that I needed to come home. I join the Church on Easter.

[Rides_A_Red_Horse]

You are wrong.

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I’m ‘Enry the Eighth I yam!

[verga]

Accidently left off these two:The punishments of sin 1472 To understand this doctrine and practice of the Church, it is necessary to understand that sin has a double consequence. Grave sin deprives us of communion with God and therefore makes us incapable of eternal life, the privation of which is called the "eternal punishment" of sin. On the other hand every sin, even venial, entails an unhealthy attachment to creatures, which must be purified either here on earth, or after death in the state called Purgatory. This purification frees one from what is called the "temporal punishment" of sin. These two punishments must not be conceived of as a kind of vengeance inflicted by God from without, but as following from the very nature of sin. A conversion which proceeds from a fervent charity can attain the complete purification of the sinner in such a way that no punishment would remain.84

1473 The forgiveness of sin and restoration of communion with God entail the remission of the eternal punishment of sin, but temporal punishment of sin remains. While patiently bearing sufferings and trials of all kinds and, when the day comes, serenely facing death, the Christian must strive to accept this temporal punishment of sin as a grace. He should strive by works of mercy and charity, as well as by prayer and the various practices of penance, to put off completely the "old man" and to put on the "new man."85

[CynicalBear]

>>Protestantism fails to recognize the greater mission of Jesus Christ, our sanctification.<<

We are already sanctified by Jesus blood.

Hebrews 13:12 Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood, suffered without the gate.

1 Corinthians 6:11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

1 Corinthians 1:2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:

[Petrosius]

Holy Toledo! Where did you get these ideas.

St. Paul. Do you not believe that the Bible is the word of God?

[Resettozero]

It’s like writing a “I’m sorry” note to someone you hurt, but never did do it. So when you die you make up for that earthly negligence in Purgatory.

No. The believer in Christ is hidden in Christ (living or asleep) Who is in and with the Father in Heaven and has sent the Holy Spirit to seal and indwell believers in Lord Jesus Christ and to prompt us how to walk gracefully as did Jesus.

That is true communion and a Christian's ultimate spiritual desirability.

Remembering Jesus and what He suffered (body broken, blood shed) for our sakes, as often as we choose when we come together in His Name, is an observance Jesus has asked us to do. Christians are pleased to do this observance in an orderly manner.

[jjotto]

And here I thought Christians believe Jesus paid the full price for their sins.

[Resettozero]

St. Paul.

I feel it is only fair to ask for a New Testament reference where Paul said what you posted.

I know he didn't come close to saying that, even if you twist his recorded words, and that you cannot show where he did.

[crusty old prospector]

Have fun. A spirited conversation is not bashing.

[virgil]

Catholic bashers

Part of the reason I became Catholic. I figured that Catholics must be doing something right to be so hated by the world. Welcome home, friend. :-)

[Rides_A_Red_Horse]

And here I thought Christians believe Jesus paid the full price for their sins.

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We’re waiting!!!

[Old Yeller]

So Catholics are the same as Universalists. Everyone except really bad people get to heaven, it’s just that some have to get there in a roundabout way. But cheer up, people still living can pay for masses to spring you free earlier so you don’t have to wait as long to get to heaven.

[Petrosius]

It isn't a failure of Protestantism but that of Roman Catholicism that presumes there is anything within the believer - of himself - to merit or appropriate sanctification as well as justification.

The Catholic Church does not teach that we merit our sanctification; it is a pure grace. To bring up this charge is unworthy of honest discourse.

We were washed, sanctified and justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.

If we are sanctified then we are made actually holy, not just imputed with holiness as a legalistic fiction. Are all those Protestants who have faith truly holy, i.e. reflecting the love of God and free from all attachments to sin and selfishness? If not, then "may the one who began a good work in you continue to complete it until the day of Christ Jesus."

No man may be able to boast in His presence, it is all because of grace.

Catholics also believe that it all because of grace. So where would anyone be able to boast?

[Colonel_Flagg]

Hebrews 10:10.

"By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all".

Let's repeat.

ALL.

If the Christ you serve didn't die for ALL of your sins, if His sacrifice just wasn't quite perfect enough, what's the point in worshiping Him?

Thankfully, Christ did in fact die for all our sins, so skip the non-Scriptural Purgatory and simply revel in the amazing grace offered by Christ who died for ALL.