Posted on 09/03/2014 6:36:07 AM PDT by NKP_Vet
Think of it this way. Your soul is like a glass of water. Water being grace. Now the glass is filled to the brim. (Full of grace)If you take a small spoonful out like committing a small sin removes some your grace from your soul.
it's not full anymore.
Please read and study Metmom’s post #327 and the other posts regarding the brothers and sisters of Jesus. Half-brothers and sisters. :)
Including "trying to despise her" a contrived story.
That is simply the typical RC recourse to argument from silence, that as Scripture does not exclude something, then it can be justified as true.
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You misjudge. No Catholic should ever *use* an argument from silence to justify anything as being true. I was not attempting to anything of the sort. Perhaps I did not state it carefully enough.
And, I will remind us all again, that the evil of our times is increasing exponentially. Let us cease arguing over such things and commit ourselves to prayer for the conversion of the MANY peoples who have no clue of what is coming.
You’re a non-practicing Catholic, but Catholic nevertheless.
A lot like Nancy Pelosi and the rest that don’t practice the faith.
(KJV)2 Corinthians 11:13-15
For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. [14] And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. [15] Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.
Please also keep in mind Satan was able to appear to Jesus Himself, and show him visions. All of which Jesus rejected, of course. But to be unwary of such a great power in our chief adversary is to make ourselves vulnerable to his deceptions.
Peace,
SR
Through divine inspiration Catholics wrote the Bible, then compiled the Bible, then canonized the Bible. Not sects who broke away from the Catholic Church 500 years ago, and for over 500 years have been spreading and teaching errors about the gospel of Jesus Christ, found in the Catholic document known as the Bible. Deal with it brother Daniel, because it’s fact and you know it’s fact and that’s why you try so hard to put down anything to do with Catholicism. Going strong now for 2,000 years. And if the world stands 2,000 more years it will still be around, safeguarding the truth and teaching the truth about the Lord Jesus Christ. Whatever faith you follow will be lost in the dust bins of history and the Catholic Church will be be standing.
But that is what your argument is based upon, even if conjecture. And apart from egregious extrapolation, so is the idea of praying to departed saints, distinctively titling NT pastors "priests," the assumption, etc. as doctrine.
And which has been shown in extensive debate here in the past.
And, I will remind us all again, that the evil of our times is increasing exponentially. Let us cease arguing over such things and commit ourselves to prayer for the conversion of the MANY peoples who have no clue of what is coming.
But which places you at odds with RCs which interpret Rome as teaching Prots need conversion, while the feeling is mutual among evangelicals here.
You argument is based upon the refuted premise that Lk. 1:28 says Mary is full of grace (and uniquely so), but which it simply does not say. Kecharitomene (one form of the verb "charitoo") in Lk. 1:28, is never used for "full" elsewhere, but Lk. 1:28 simply says she was graced, favored, enriched with grace, as in Eph.1:6.
Much more technical here :
And evidently the translators of the official Catholic NAB Bible also render Lk. 1:28 as "Hail, favored one!"
Nor does kecharitomene being a perfect passive participle translate into meaning a "a perfection of grace," or distinctively a past action, in distinction to echaritosen (another form of the verb "charitoo") used in Eph. 1:6, as there also it refers to a present state based upon a past action, "To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted [echaritosen] in the beloved." (Ephesians 1:6) More at source.
,In contrast, the only one (though Stephen in Acts 6:8, in some mss) said to be full of grace is the Lord Jesus, "full ("plērēs) of grace (charis) and truth." (Jn. 1:14) The reason "plērēs" is not used in Lk. 1:28 is because plērēs actually does denote "full" 17 other places in the NT., and thus it is used of the one who was/is unmistakably full of grace and Truth. If Mary was perfectly full of grace as bearing Christ then it would say she was full of grace, but it does not.
The attempt to make Mary like Christ is just one more example of Cath. thinking of mortals "above that which is written." (1Cor. 4:6)
For in the the Catholic quest to almost deify Mary, it is taught by Catholics*,
as Christ was sinless, so Mary was;
as the Lord remained a virgin, so Mary;
as Christ was called the Son of God, indicating ontological oneness, so Mary is called the Mother of God (which easily infers the same, and is not the language of Scripture);
as the emphasis is upon Christ as the Creator through whom God (the Father) made all things, including Mary, so it is emphasized that uniquely “to her, Jesus owes His Precious Blood,” shed for the salvation of mankind, (the logic behind which can lead back to Eve);
as Catholics (adding error to error) believe Christ gave His actual flesh and blood to be eaten, so it is emphasized that Mary gave Him this, being fashioned out of Mary's pure blood and even being “kneaded with the admixture of her virginal milk,” so that she can say, "Come and eat my bread, drink the wine I have prepared" (Prov. 9:5);
as Scripture declares that Christ suffered for our sins, so Mary is said to have done so also;
as Christ saves us from the condemnation and death resulting from the fault of Adam, so it is taught that man was condemned through the fault of Eve, the root of death, but that we are saved through the merits of Mary; who was the source of life for everyone.
as the Lord was bodily ascended into Heaven, so Mary also was;
as Christ is given all power in heaven and in earth, so Mary is “surpassing in power all the angels and saints in Heaven.”
as Christ is the King of the saints and over all kings, (Rv. 15:3; 17:14; 19:16) so Mary is made Queen of Heaven and the greatest saint, and that “Next to God, she deserves the highest praise;”
as the Father made Christ Lord over all things, so Mary is enthroned (all other believers have to wait for their crowns) and exalted by the Lord as Queen over all things;
as Christ is highly exalted above all under the Father, so Mary is declared to be the greatest saint of all, and as having a certain equality with the Heavenly Father;
as Christ ever liveth to make intercession for the saints, so is Mary said to do so;
as all things come from the Father through the Son, so Mary is made to be the dispenser of all grace;
as Christ is given all power on Heaven and on earth, Mary is said to have (showing some restraint) “almost unlimited power;”
as no man comes to the Father but through the Son, so it is taught that no one can come to the Son except through Mary in Heaven;
and as the Lord called souls to come to Him to be given life and salvation, so (in misappropriation of the words of Scripture) it is said of Mary, “He that shall find me shall find life, and shall have salvation from the Lord;” “that through her are obtained every hope, every grace, and all salvation. For this is His will, that we obtain everything through Mary.”
And as Christ is given many titles of honor, so Mary also is, except that she is honored by Catholics with more titles than they give to the Lord Himself!
Mary was a holy, virtuous instrument of God, but of whom Scripture says relatively little, while holy fear ought to restrain ascribing positions, honor, glory and powers to a mortal that God has not revealed as given to them, and or are only revealed as being possessed by God Himself. But like as the Israelites made an instrument of God an object of worship, (Num. 21:8,9; 2Kg. 18:4) Catholics have magnified Mary far beyond what is written and warranted and even allowed, based on what is in Scripture.
And Swan stated ,
I was though pleased recently to hear Roman Catholic Magisterium interpreter Jimmy Akin say of Luke 1:28 on the word kecharitomene: "This is a Greek term that you could use in that exact grammatical formation for someone else who wasn't immaculately conceived and the sentence would still make sense." He then gives the example of using the term of Mary's grandmother. He also stated, "This is something where I said previously, we need the additional source of information from tradition and we need the guidance of the magisterium to be able to put these pieces together." This is a frank admission that the text does not plainly support the Roman Catholic interpretation and needs to be supplemented by another ultimate authority. In other words, the IC must be read into Luke 1:28.
More .
This is true, and is due to a shared conversion by faith in the word of Truth, and relationship with the Lord Jesus, resulting in a basic essential unity of the Spirit - Christ in them and they in Christ - that is greater than their differences, and manifest in the multitudinous ministries consisting of believers from various evang. churches.
Yet this is still basically a remnant, as many are not actually converted, or many of us are yet not humbled and committed enough to accept one another as Christ accepted us, and to contend for the Truth and rescue the perishing.
Too simplistic. That’s is the stuff you hear from uneducated corner street pastors. Or even the Joel Osteens and Billy Grahams. Just as 1+1=2 is dogma based on reason and inquiry. Catholic teachings are based on intellectual inquiry backed by history, tradition and scripture. It’s the teaching handed down from the Christ to his apostles and carried through an unbroken chain of authority for over 2000 years embraced by theologians and scholars of every stripe and nomination. Scripture itself records that not all things said and done by Christ is found in the Bible.
From nobel laureates, astronomers, artists, sculptors, mathematicians, poets, and famed writers and scientists to the ordinary folks who lived through the apparitions at Lourdes and Fatima believe in the One Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic faith. This is why it has attracted the largest number of converts from all the other faiths of the world including the Chief Rabbi of Rome, the former General Secretary of the British Communist Party, and more recently America’s own leading Lutheran theologian, the late Richard Neuhaus. Go read, why America’s scholar-politician Bobby Jindal converted from Hinduism to Catholicism.
I copied and pasted. I don’t type in anything but English.
it's not full anymore.
Well, religion class taught you wrong.
Romans 5:20-21 Now the law came in to increase the trespass, but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more, so that, as sin reigned in death, grace also might reign through righteousness leading to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
The Catholics are able to grant Luther some leniency since he worshipped Christ’s mother. The logic seems to be you Protestants are anathema but if you pray to Mary the way Luther did, we can at least have a civil conversation!
Then perhaps Catholics can then toss the *The Bible doesn't say Mary was assumed, therefore we can teach that she did, after all Enoch and Elijah were so she must have been.* argument from silence.
Catholics sure love their credentials.
Being a respecter of persons is a sin, as per James, Catholic’s favorite book of the Bible.
The wisdom of man is foolishness in God’s sight. I wouldn’t go about bragging on intellectual abilities what with what God says about it in 1 Corinthians 1 & 2.
Grace is shown to us in spite of our sins. Mary in her response to Elizabeth referred to the fruit of her womb as the “Lord of her Salvation”. She was a sinner as much as any of us but in her Obedience to God, she was shown grace and mercy and her sins were forgiven her.
You don’t lose grace if you have sinned but repent and ask forgiveness. Paul says the “inner man is renewed day by day”! The Glass is always kept full!
That's a tacit admission that Catholics worship Mary if I ever saw one.
This Bible you speak of did not drop from the skies. The book was selected by the early Church Fathers based on historical and intellectual inquiry, tradition and revelation. Throwing out little snippets form the Bible is precisely the kind of stuff the Osteens, Jim Jones’, and David Koresh’s did and oh! what a following of fools they have.
metmom: That's a tacit admission that Catholics worship Mary if I ever saw one.
I can't argue with that!
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