Posted on 07/10/2014 8:05:46 PM PDT by NKP_Vet
The premise not withstanding, this writing style just annoys me with too many unnecessary words and phrases for my liking. I found it difficult to focus on what the author was communicating.
>So this understanding of scripture and church does not preclude doctrinal development?
What the Catholic Church said at the last council is final and infallible until the next council, no matter what Scripture says.
I went and got a few Scriptures to prove Sola Scriptura. After reading all the others posted here, how can there be the least doubt? Deniers are like the Pharisees.
I don’t blame you for denying your pope’s, I’d run from those sinful men too....!
But what of the Traditions of God? When the Apostles were sent forth, they didn't have Bibles with them. The only Scripture they brought was the Old Testament. The New Testament was the word of their testimony... the Tradition born out of the Lamb of God Himself.
Revelation 22
18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
How many books are there in the Bible? It's an important question to answer your challenge because Revelation is but one in a library of books. And, by the way, there is no way Revelation could stand on its own. It is a summary of the history of salvation completely impenetrable without the rest of Scripture and Tradition.
RE: This guy has no understanding of Sola Scriptura.
He is describing solo scriptura.
_______________________________________
Many Roman Catholic energies more often than not are aimed at the Anabaptist error that we call Solo Scriptura.
Here the person affirms that all he needs is himself and his Bible. The wisdom of the church in history, the community of believers, studying scripture humbly together, are all deemed irrelevant to understanding the things of God. Solo scriptura is reprehensible and ignorant and a-historical.
But many Roman Catholics continue to erect this strawman and then call it Sola Scriptura.
Sola Scriptura, like the Scriptures themselves, recognizes that God has gifted the church with teachers and pastors.
It recognizes that the church has progressed and reached consensus on critical issues in and through the ancient ecumenical creeds.
It affirms with vigor that we are all standing on the shoulders of giants.
But it also affirms that even these giants have feet of clay (yes, Popes and Saints included ).
And there is where the Bible does in the end teach sola Scriptura. Sola Scriptura is a biblical doctrine not because the Bible says so. That would be a tautology- the kind of argument we find in that collection of lies the Book of Mormon.
Instead the Bible is our alone final authority because it alone is the Word of God. It has been attested, authenticated, by God Himself. Miracles serve as the divine imprimatur, the proof that this is a message of God. This is how Nicodemus reasoned when he said, “Rabbi, we know that You are a teacher come from God; for no one can do these signs that You do unless God is with him” (John 3:2). This is also how Jesus Himself reasoned when He first forgave the sins of the paralytic lowered through the roof. In response to the unspoken charge that He had blasphemed, Jesus told the man, “Arise, take up your bed, and go to your house” (Matthew 9:1-8).
Here’s the other thing that might surprise the Catholic.... I would be quite content to add as a second infallible and inerrant authority the ancient creeds of the church under the following conditions.
1) First, those who gathered to formulate these creeds would need to have their message authenticated by miraculous works. Let them raise men from the dead like Christ and His apostles and prophets did.
2) Second, we must add those creeds to our Bibles. If both sources are equally authoritative, why do we separate them?
3) In like manner, I’d be content to add as a second infallible and inerrant authority the statements of the Pope when He speaks ex cathedra.
First, however, let him raise men from the dead. Second, let us add his words, assuming he would even tell us what they were, to our canon.
But wait, there’s more. I want an authoritative list, in both instances of what these messages are.
I want the Roman Catholic to show me a list of infallible papal or consiliar statements.
Finally, when we talk about the problem of interpretation we run headlong into the problem of the infinite regress.
That is, those who are less strident in their views on tradition, who deny that tradition carries additional content to the Scripture, instead argue that church tradition gives an infallible and inerrant interpretation of Scripture.
Okay. Where then can we find an infallible and inerrant interpretation of the interpretation?
Assuming we could succeed there, of course, we would need an inerrant interpretation of the interpretation of the interpretation. Ad nauseum.
But let’s stop here.
I believe that Scripture is God’s word and it is perspicuous, understandable. It says what it means and means what it says.
It is attested by the miraculous power of God. And it is all these things, alone. It alone, all by itself, equips us for every good work.
I get suspicious of anyone who tells me that MORE is required to understand, or MORE is required to obey.
Salvation is not found in sola scriptura, not is it found in anything out side of scripture. Salvation is found in the person, Jesus Christ. When one is born again, they become members of his church. Walking the aisle, being confirmed, signing a card or joining a church are ALL man made rituals!
Acts 4:12 "Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved."
Romans 10:9 "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved."
John 20:31 "But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name."
It is sad you are convinced your salvation is in your church membership and your eucharist, because, according to the Bible, you are sorely mistaken!
Dear friends, although I was very eager to write to you about the salvation we share, I felt compelled to write and urge you to contend for the faith that was once for all entrusted to God’s holy people
Jude
But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God’s curse!
Gal 1:8
I am NOT by any means a perfect nor near perfect Christian but my ability to read is fairly certain.
You might want to go back to Scripture on that... Interpreting Scripture is not a matter of one's own private revelation (2 Peter 1:20). Left to our own devices, we distort Scripture in our lack of understanding to our own destruction (2 Peter 3:16).
More on the problems with Sola Scriptura from a previous discussion. We tend to do this a lot around here...
Why is that first part of the sentence so little explained?
One presumes these "great teachers" were all in agreement on everything. Newsflash...they weren't.
The final authority is God. No man or group of men can get there, only make arguments. And all the premises of those arguments must come from Scripture. And that brings you right back.
WHICH Scriptures? The only written Scripture at the time of Acts was the Old Testament. They were studying what the Church practices today... the New Testament was concealed in the Old and the Old Testament has been revealed by the New. They searched the Old Testament to find the truth of the testimony brought by the Apostles. The Apostles brought their own experience and their teaching authority in building Christ's Church, not Bibles to be memorized.
“Jesus said to them again, ‘Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you.’ And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, ‘Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.’ “
When the people heard this, they were cut to the heart and said to Peter and the other apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?”
38 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call.”
Acts 2 37-38
Private interpretation is gnosticism.
But my post 53 and you will see that your argument for more than Scripture must come right back to Scripture or error.
Do you deny God's authority to grant authority to whom He chooses?
Matthew 28:18-20 And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age."
uhhh...thought that was an official teaching of the RCC. that means you gotta believe it.
“Jesus said to them again, ‘Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you.’ And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, ‘Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.’ “
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