The Veiled Doctrine of the Pre-Trib Rapture

Raptureready.com ^ | 2-3-14 | Dan Payne

[mdmathis6]

“So when Christ scourged the moneychangers in the Temple he did not do it out of anger?”

Being the living Law he could be angry, punish them as he saw fit, but being of the order of Melchizidek he did not kill them though he had the right to...for “he scourges those he loves”. Get it?! He was angry, but he sinned not, and spared the lives of those he could have killed, showing them the mercy that only the priestly order of Melchizidek not Aaron would allow!

[CynicalBear]

And this relates to God’s wrath on the unbelievers how?

[wideawake]

I suppose we are down to semantics now.

Not really. I take wrath to mean "anger" (orghs, the Greek, meaning: "anger.").

You seem to be saying that if someone is not eternally destined to God's anger, that nothing bad will ever happen to them and that they will be whisked away before all the unpleasantness.

The path that leads to eternal Life rather than eternal Anger is going to have its chastisements and its scourgings along the way.

That's not because God chastises and scourges his sons out of pleasure and joy.

[faucetman]

“.... to kill them off before their Shepherd COULD come to rescue them...”

The Savior can come WHENEVER He wants to. Satan only has the power which God allows. The quoted statement is nonsensical.

[fishtank]

Too true.

But I hope that some of “many people” will remember that they didn’t have a clue when I wrote that, and maybe it will provoke them to some Bible study homework.

[fishtank]

Don’t get me wrong.

I do lean post-trib, or pre-wrath rapture.

BUT BUT BUT I believe in the rapture and the 1000-ium.

And it might be a pre-trib rapture, but I really don’t think it’s preterit.

[dangerdoc]

The thing that confuses me is that the tribulation sounds a lot like Nero’s persecution of the early Christians and the scriptures don’t document the fall of Jerusalem which makes me think they were written early, not late.

I don’t know which scriptures were preparing early Christians for Nero and which ones were for late Christians regarding the end of ages.

And regarding Noah, God withheld the flood until Methuselah died which argues Christians will be taken off the Earth before God’s wrath.

I freely admit, I am confused.

[CynicalBear]

>> “.... to kill them off before their Shepherd COULD come to rescue them...”<<

I must admit to being clueless as to the intent of that statement in light of this article. That statement nor anything like it is found in the article. Unless you were referring to this.

“Of course, we know that Satan will launch just such an operation of extermination against all who refuse to worship him, during the second half of the Tribulation (Revelation 13:7-8).”

The author in that statement refers it to and ties it directly to what scripture says WILL happen.

Revelation 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

>> The quoted statement is nonsensical.<<

It looks to me like that should read “The misquoted statement is nonsensical”.

Correct me if I have missed something.

[faucetman]

Never heard of this site or guy. BUT in searching about, I
found this:

” False Prophet Pat Robertson Please Shut Up by Todd Strandberg”

http://www.christianforums.com/t84142/

And I immediately started liking this guy.

[Nea Wood]

The ones who hold out their hands for the mark of the beast. What will you do when your children are starving and you are standing in the ration line?

That's one of the things I have trouble explaining to a non-Christian relative. She asks why God will be so angry at, and deny heaven to, a person who takes the mark of the beast to feed their hungry children. I guess when the time comes, they are supposed to trust that God will provide for their kids.

[CynicalBear]

>>Not really. I take wrath to mean "anger" (orghs, the Greek, meaning: "anger.").<<

You are correct and is used other places to mean anger. Taken in context and especially in Revelation which it is referring to the word is used along with “Great” which it isn’t in places that are not referring to the tribulation period. So in that respect we are talking about semantics. I think we would both agree that the time of the tribulation God’s wrath will be exhibited more than at any other time in history. It does after all say we have not seen such great tribulation and will never again.

[dartuser]

I will say that bringing in the Jewish feasts etc brings in another level of prophetic insight that actually supports the view of the pre trib rapture of the church of this age of grace and the introduction of the last seven years of Daniel’s prophecy.

One the other hand ... why would we expect that the church would be the fulfillment of a Jewish feast?

[dartuser]

That is Darby's invention.

You're way behind the class ...

[CynicalBear]

LOL Robertson has certainly put his foot in it a few times.

[chuckles]

I would like to recommend that you study the Jewish Feasts and Festivals. The OT make it clear that these are God's feasts and not mans. If you follow the Jewish religious calendar,( not the secular calendar), It answers many Scriptures found in the NT. We all need to understand that Passover was when the death angel passed over the families with lamb's blood on their door posts in Egypt. Even children are taught this story in Sunday School. Low and behold, We then learn that Jesus became the Lamb that was slaughtered on Passover and His blood saves us when we have applied it to our "doorposts" which is our heart. In the OT, God was signifying that He was reserving certain days for His work and the "seasons" would give us a hint as to His future plans. Of course, Jesus was "Unleavened Bread", and He was "The First Fruits of the dead". 50 days later, The Holy Spirit was dispensed on Pentecost. The first Pentecost, the Law was given on Mt. Sinai, the second, the Holy Spirit was given. In the first, 3000 died, in the second, 3000 were saved. All those days have been fulfilled Biblicaly and only 3 Feasts remain. The next to fall would be the Feast of Yom Teruah, or "Trumpets". A detailed study of these Feast Days answers many questions believers may have about the future. "The day no one knows" is a 2 day period that happens on Trumpets. It's like telling a person from Japan, "I'll call you next turkey day". He has no clue what we mean, but an American would know easily. People have turned inside out and churches have split over someone saying the Rapture will come on some future Yom Teruah. Living Water, Trumpets, Light of the world, and several other familiar words are all themes found in God's Feast Days. Yom Kippur, of course is Judgement day, and Tabernacles is the 1000 year reign of Christ on Earth. Jesus was born on Tabernacles and everything in His life of significance was on a feast Day. If you asked a Jew about the 3 posts wrapped in swaddling cloth set up in the Temple courtyard burning, he would say "Oh, that's the light of the world!"

I can't give you a 6 hour Bible study in a few lines on a blog, but it's safe to say EVERY Christian should at least be exposed to what Jesus believed and practiced because he was a practicing Jew. If He fulfilled every "jot and tittle" in the Bible while on Earth, it makes sense to me He will be faithful to fulfill the future commitments made in the last 3 Feast days.

Another point to make about the Rapture's timing is, God uses certain words in the Bible to denote His feelings towards us so that we may understand His emotions and intent. He uses the word "adultery" to denote His disgust with Israel following other gods and calls then an adulterous nation. He uses "sons and daughters" to show His feelings toward His children as we are fathers as He is a Father. He used the term "Bride" to show us His feeling toward the Church. We need to ask ourselves if we would leave our wives in harms way as the total wrath of God is poured out on the Earth. If a Groom loves His Bride, would He not fetch them out of the trouble to come? Why would He say He loves us and leave us here to be beheaded by the beast? He at least made a path of escape for Noah and family, why not his beloved?

People say I'm saying Christians will have it easy, but that's not true. The devil can dispense his own misery and is so doing even today. We are not guaranteed safety here and Jesus said the world persecutes Him, why would we get anything different? But that's NOT the wrath of God, they are totally different. If God placed these wheels in motion back in Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, ect, and held true with supplying His Lamb, shedding His blood, and dispensing the Holy Spirit in order, and on certain days, I have no doubt He will not change things up just to keep us in the dark.

As far as the "Thief" reference, You have to keep in mind the world belongs to Satan and stays that way until Jesus come back to redeem it. He will call us out for our protection before He claims title to the land. Of course God is capable of anything, but people forget that He is also tied to His Word. The Word was written before the foundation of the world and it is an unchangeable script that will be finished to the last period on the page. Satan knows his part and will perform his duties as God decreed from the beginning. There is no plan "B". I've read the verses people refer to for mid trib and post trib theories, but I'm convinced in pre trib. I believe the Holy Spirit has revealed it to me just as I'm sure the others believe the holy Spirit has reveals some unknowable truth to them. I think the foundation stone is, I believe God loves me and my family and will be faithful to remove me from danger before He pours out His wrath on the earth. I can't imaging a loving Bridegroom leaving His Bride behind to suffer with the people deserving of death.

Another reference would be to the people that are His that are left behind. When lukewarm and no Christians are left behind to suffer tribulation, they will know what happened to their family and friends because they had heard the story, but failed to believe. When the Church leaves, There is no more "grace" period to come to the Lord without payment. You either will take the mark, or be murdered to be saved. When the beast has your loved ones with a knife to their throat, will you take the mark or claim Christ and let them perish. When it comes right down to it, the knife will be at your throat and you will feel the blade slicing you flesh and you will make up your mind then to live forever or rot in hell. Pretty different choice than what we have today. The souls under the alter mentioned in Revelation will be these people. They are naked and have no white robes because the wedding already happened at Rapture. The sacrifice of Jesus on the cross will not be held lightly. Everyone has the chance now to claim His blood and leave before the wrath. If you miss the train outta here, the only way off this rock is by your murder. If you save your life you will lose it and if not, you will be saved.

[CynicalBear]

>> maybe it will provoke them to some Bible study homework.<<

That is the reason for these threads after all. I certainly have been “forced” (used lightly) into learning through these discussions.

[Lee N. Field]

Ping for later

Scoffers arriving in 3..2..1

Whatever.

I await, with hope, the day of resurrection.

I also hold that the standard dispensational model is based on flawed presuppositions, comes to whacky conclusions, and has serious implications that its defenders seem blind and deaf to.

[CynicalBear]

>>And it might be a pre-trib rapture, but I really don’t think it’s preterit.<<

You and my wife would have agreed until she “saw the light”. If you study Daniel’s prophecy (Daniel 9) you will see there are seven years (one week) left unfulfilled. That’s the seven years of the tribulation. Then if you understand the Jewish marriage customs you will see that the “bride” is sequestered with the groom for “one week” before they come out publicly. It all fits perfectly with the pre trib rapture of the “bride of Christ” to go spend that one week prior to coming out publicly at the end of the tribulation.

[CynicalBear]

It’s sort of like the believer and the unbeliever. The unbeliever thinks the believer is wasting his time. The believer can simply counter with all the positive aspects of being a believer but the believer really has nothing to lose if he is wrong. The unbeliever on the other hand most certainly does.

[CynicalBear]

>> I would like to recommend that you study the Jewish Feasts and Festivals.<<

Did that extensively and completely agree with your post. And may I say very well done. I hope you save that and use it again whenever these discussion arise. Thank you for that contribution.