Posted on 12/28/2013 3:59:04 PM PST by NYer
She has been told nothing but the truth. God loves her and will welcome her back into His Church.
Not false.
Grace opened the Gates.
Free Will gets you into the Gate.
Nailed it.(sound familiar?)
God loves her and will welcome her back into His Church.
Metmom is a part of His church,Metmom knows this and her joy no man will take.
Under the Catholic model, in which the stewards of Scripture are to be submitted to, and those it rejects are to be rejected, the church itself would be rendered invalid, as it began by following an Itinerant Preacher in dissent from those who were the stewards of Scripture, and who sat in the seat of Moses.
Well, I would say that this is a bit of a loaded statement, with much taken as absolutely true without any real support. But, insofar as you speak of "the stewards of Scripture" I fear you may be following yet another modernist error which is not actually what the Church is about. The true historic model of the Catholic faith is not about individual men interpreting the bible and presenting that as definitive, which your statement seems to imply. What matters is the Spirit speaking through the Church throughout history and all time, and that means that we look not to a pope, or even Sts. Augustine or Jerome or Abmbrose. Rather, we look for what has been accepted as true for all that time, and that means listening to the entire Church in history. Or at least that is how it is supposed to be.
Individuals can err, including even great saints. If some interpretation from some important person, even a pope, contradicts what has been held from the beginning then guess what? It is not the true Catholic teaching, but just another novel innovation to be avoided. However, this is not true anymore. Now it is what the individual people say that has authority rather than accepted dogmas and doctrines which come down as part of the treasury of the faith. If the right person says it, it doesn't matter if it comports with 2000 years of teaching; it is automatically true no matter what. Everything that we have always known must now be reinterpreted to fit with the new ideas. The same is true for councils, and rather than looking to whether they are orthodox to determine their ecumenical nature, we now find them being called such and therefore being accepted as true just because of the label. That is why nobody knows what real heresy is anymore. What was heresy a thousand years ago is what a pope is preaching today, and that is accepted as absolutely true because of who is saying it.
“...you are relying on yourself...”
Not true. I am relying on God’s Grace. He opened the Gates by His Grace. Hell is for those who deo not Fo His Work. Commandments, Beatitudes - they are WOrks that we Must Accomplsih to get into hte Gate
It’s actually Luke 24 and repentance not penance:
Luke 24:45-47 NASB
Then He opened their minds to understand the Scriptures, and He said to them, “Thus it is written, that the Christ would suffer and rise again from the dead the third day, and that repentance for forgiveness of sins would be proclaimed in His name to all the nations, beginning from Jerusalem.
Sorry = it is raining here and my screen is bad - do his Work
“You have been told the truth I will pray for your soul.”
Ha!
You told nothing. Zilch. I conclude you cannot, based on you failure to provide anything except opinion.
Your works will only serve as evidence of salvation and for rewards. The wil l not determine salvation.
So tell me the difference- repentance and forgiveness of sins would be proclaimed
Confession is abeautiful thing. Find a pres(by}try (priest) and do it and be free
"Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent."(John 6:28,29)
1.Mark 5:36 "...Be not afraid, only believe"
Roman Catholic support for the demoncrats goes back to Tammany Hall. Then Al Smith later rejuvenated the Irish Catholics.
The "social" activities were rather limited.
I fear you have misunderstood me. I was speaking of social reasons, not social events. People continue to go to churches after they have stopped living the faith fully for many reasons, and most of them stem from relationships with people rather than a connection to the actual ceremonial of the church or doctrinal reasons.
Now, I cannot speak to your church as I am not familiar with it, but it sounds like you go there for exactly the reasons I am saying so many have drifted away from their local Latin parish. It has become disconnected from the historic tradition of the Church, and in turn rather lukewarm faith-wise. All of our local parishes here in this town are happy-clappy rock band churches, which is their response to the lukewarmness, but of course it doesn't work at all. The many local protestant rock music churches do it much, much better, and all the Catholics who would be inspired by solemn and reverent Masses are shamed for not thinking it is right.
Personally, I feel none of it anymore. It is tiresome and boring frankly. And I know many people who feel the same way, some in our parish, some in our past parish, and many in no parish anymore. Sure, the parking lots are full, but most of those people give no thought to whether what is being done is good or bad. They accept it without thought, and participate without much either to be honest. I say this because my children are in the local parish school, and I talk to the parents all the time, and they echo these sentiments to me everyday. Oh, they keep going, but not because it is a powerful faith motivator in their life, but out of a sense of inertia. And because their kids are in the school, or their wife is, or their mother is, or their mother in law is, or some other kind of thing. Many go because they are required to if they are to receive any subsidies for their kids' tuition. How is that for a reason to go to Mass?
The absolute worst Catholic bashers are fallen-away Catholics. They are all on a guilt trip so they constantly have to rant and rave and act like a little a little kid that can’t get his way. The Bible is very specific about the Holy Eucharist and anyone that wittingly makes fun of it, and knows better (like fallen-away Catholics), God will surely judge them when their time on this earth is done.
So instead of constantly trying to justify leaving the faith, why don’t you just let it go and quit making yourself look silly with your ignorance of scripture. If you are truly happy with your new faith, how about leaving those alone that are Catholic and proud of their faith. Show a little respect. That’s all anyone asks.
Thinking we will have something good to offer God to gain our salvation is akin to standing on the surface of the sun expecting to cast a shadow.
Can you read? Do you know your math? Or did you not take it in school?
I have posted what I posted, take your polemics somewhere else. Not interested in it.
I am loosely referring to conservative RCs, which typically disown the liberals Rome treats as members. I will change the abbreviation to CRCs
I am and was not a fan of Kennedy’ politics but most of the excommunicable offenses are directed at Bishops and Priests.
Then that would further render as spurious the relegation of liberal RCs laity as being self excoms.
Not sure what you are talking about. Nothing spurious at all. There are clear offenses which result in excommunication according to Catholic Canon law. I cited them in an earlier thread. In addition, mortal sin would obviously separate one from the Church and Christ as well.
The Canon clearly states ‘Procured an abortion” is that the same thing as “supports liberal judges who promote abortion rights”
Obviously, if you legalize the killing of Jews then you are culpable for their deaths.
First off, I don’t think Kennedy legalized anything. That was done by 9 Supreme Court Justices in 1973, most of which at the time were not Catholic by a 7 - 2 vote. If you are going to make that argument, then George Bush is responsible for thousands of deaths for the Iraq War as Sadamm Husein did not attack the US. It was not a legitimate war, the same can be said for Vietnam. Neither country attacked the United States.
Did he apostate from the faith, i.e. leave the Church
According to the CRCs, yes, but in reality no, he left a former manifestation of the Roman institution, but not the modern one.
Babble. Their is one Catholic Church in communion with Rome, period. Is anyone claiming Kennedy was a saint. No.
did he cause Catholics to leave the Church [formal schism].
Likewise no, because you can be a Teddy K Catholic and be a member.
The Catholic Church is not a political club, which apparently you associate Christianity with some political ideology. That is heretical nonsense. I disagreed with Kennedy’s politics, but I have no right to say he is not a Catholic. He was not a good one, no doubt, but that is not for me to say.
Supporting abortion rights is sinful but is it a latae sententaie offense?
Yes, according to the CRCs, obviously Rome does not treat them as such. Even quite public ones.
Rome doesn’t publicly excommunicate Adulterers or people who are in irregular marriages. Excommunications are not used against laity, and that has been the case throughout history. Bishops and Priests, yes.
There are lots of things that are sinful that don’t incur automatic excommunication. Lust, anger, greed, gossip, not going to Mass on Sunday.
If impenitent it may be considered such. Agree, if someone sins seriously, they by there actions have excommunicated themselves, but there is not formal Church process that publicly says you are excommunicated.
Have we ever seen a lay Catholic excommunicated back in those days.
Your argument is not with me, but the CRCs who disallow liberals as really being members, despite how their church treats them.
Well I am not arguing with anyone. I have only presented what excommunication is and what it is not.
So I will err on the side of Mercy and presume that Teddy did in fact make a good Sacrament of COnfession before he died, with a good Act of Contrition
That mercy will not help him, and is erring by making a great presumption, as the evidence only says points to impenitence.
Ok, how do you know God’s Mercy will not help him. You are making some pretty strong claims and are playing God. I have no reason to suspect that Cardinal O’Malley was not aware [privately] that Kennedy did repent of his sins before he died otherwise there would have been no Funeral Liturgy. To presume the opposite is to defame Cardinal O’Malley’s character [Bear false witness] without any such evidence. So, I refuse to go down that route and play God.
and that he received the Annointing of the Sick and Viaticum [His Last Eucharist] and that God’s Grace found away to rescue Ole Teddy from himself,
That would not save him anyway. The Annointing of the Sick in Scripture (Ja. 5) was for healing, nor as a precursor of death, and done by elders, not priests , which elders are never called, except as part of the general priesthood of all believers.
Nor was anyone ever born again and saved by taking part in the Lord’s supper, but by contrite repentance and faith in the Lord Jesus to save him as a damned+destitute sinner, by the sinless shed blood of Christ.
This is now your Theological opinion and are in obvious conflict with Catholic Doctrine. I reject your theological positions on this matter, and you reject mine. The constant Theological writings of the Fathers support the Catholic view against yours. The list is exhaustive so you stick to your individualistic view
I would conjecture Ole Teddy had or is still having a stop over in Purgatory!!! before he can enjoy the full Beatific Vision.
That is more error, as all the verses which clearly speak of a N.T. believer’s postmortem condition (Luke 23:43; Acts 7:59; 1Cor. 15:52; 2 Cor 5:8; Phil. 1:23; 1 Th 4:17; 1Jn. 3:2) show it is with the Lord, in whose presence there is fulness of joy (Ps. 16:11). And the postmortem only suffering actually taught for believers is that of 1 Cor. 3, the suffering of loss of rewards (and the Lord’s grievous disapproval) due to the nature of the material by which they built the church. But which a soul is saved in spite of, not because of. And yet which does not occur until the Lord’s return. See more here
Moreover, while God does chastise believers as needed for sins, and works to perfect saints, this whole work is not done by postmortem suffering, or even just by suffering, but by facing the afflictions and temptation of this life. Thus the Lord Himself came down from Heaven to take on the nature of the seed of Abraham, and be made “perfect through sufferings” (Heb. 2:10), that of being “in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin,” (Hebrews 4:15) “For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted” (Hebrews 2:18).
Scriptural quotes put together by you to support and erroneous theology. Has absolutely nothing to do with the questions at hand.
Show a little respect. That’s all anyone asks.
sure thing
The absolute worst Catholic bashers are fallen-away Catholics. They are all on a guilt trip so they constantly have to rant and rave and act like a little a little kid that can’t get his way. The Bible is very specific about the Holy Eucharist and anyone that wittingly makes fun of it, and knows better (like fallen-away Catholics), God will surely judge them when their time on this earth is done.
So instead of constantly trying to justify leaving the faith, why don’t you just let it go and quit making yourself look silly with your ignorance of scripture. If you are truly happy with your new faith, how about leaving those alone that are Catholic and proud of their faith. Show a little respect. That’s all anyone asks.
I AM His church.
My inclusion in is happened when I was born again.
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