Questions for “Bible Christians” that they can’t answer - Part 1

Catholic Convert ^ | October 25, 2013 | David Palm and Steve Ray

[Romulus]

The apostles, and after them the successors appointed by them.

[rbmillerjr]

“Seems most of your list boils down to “Why do they believe scripture is more important than what the Pope says?” And that is easy to answer...”

Ding ding...we have a winner for theological strawman of the day.

[impimp]

Do you know of any of these conflicts between Catholic Tradition and scripture?

[Iscool]

The Foundation of the church is the Trinity, Christ’s SOLE atonement for sin

That's what I thought too...Your religion didn't find the Trinity til 400 years after Jesus was Crucified...That's about when your religion showed up...

[Marie]

Thank you for answering!

How are the appointments made? Who decided who’s next in line?

(And are we talking about Catholic doctrine or Protestant? I’m getting lost in the thread.)

Please know that I’m genuinely curious and not trying to pick a fight or make anyone defensive. I entered this thread with the intention to understand and I greatly appreciate those who’ve made a true effort to address what, appears to be, discrepancies between the two major branches of Christianity.

We have some smart FReepers!

[taxcontrol]

Lets start with prayers to dead people and especially Mary.

Catholic Catechism 2682 (from http://www.usccb.org/beliefs-and-teachings/what-we-believe/catechism/catechism-of-the-catholic-church/epub/index.cfm#)

Because of Mary’s singular cooperation with the action of the Holy Spirit, the Church loves to pray in communion with the Virgin Mary, to magnify with her the great things the Lord has done for her, and to entrust supplications and praises to her.

Contrasted against how Jesus taught when the Apostles asked him directly how should we pray. He did not teach us to pray to our ancestors, icons, each other, priests, crosses, saints, the apostles OR EVEN TO Jesus himself. Rather Jesus taught that we should take our concerns directly to God the father. The Lords prayer is found in Matthew 6:9-13.

The teaching of the Catholic church DIRECTLY contradicts the oral tradition and teaching of Jesus as recorded in Matthew.

[mlizzy]

For the most part, the priests and ministers were *wonderful*, honest, loving people who genuinely wanted to talk to me. I was offered some resolution on some of the issues, but there were things that I could never find satisfactory answers to.

My daughter is where you were at, Marie, and it is heartbreaking to me. She has selected, however, to go one further, and step away from faith entirely. The "prize" so to speak through the Catholic Church is the Eucharist (and of course all Sacraments in addition), but lo and behold, you can't receive Him 'until' you become a Catholic, so what that means to me anyway, is that it's almost impossible to have all your questions answered in the beginning or even the middle of your faith journey, because it is through the Eucharist, that the answers keep coming.... and coming..... It is through His Love, His Body, that we grow..... and learn..

[Romulus]

It is not the Catholic position that Apostolic Tradition overrides Scripture. Sacred Scripture is the written component of Tradition. It’s all God given, and without contradiction.

[impimp]

Romans 8:38

Who is dead?

[Iscool]

Not after that oral tradition was referenced by the Book of John and the Letters of John and written down by the Early Church Fathers who KNEW the apostles.

Ever think about that? That they got their information first hand from the apostles?

No accuracy to that at all...Polycarp was the only one who knew John and there wasn't a Catholic bone in his body...

Besides, that's a pretty feeble argument...The person who had John exiled to Patmos knew John as well...Just because someone knew John is no reason to believe they wrote the truth about him...

[Marie]

Please don’t have a broken heart over her search. For me, at the core, was a genuine desire to truly *know* G-d. Having a child who’s honestly seeking Him is a blessing.

But you bring up a point that I had to come to. I have faith in G-d and His scripture. I still have a heck of a time with human beings ability to understand it. :)

[NYer]

Funny how so many Catholics are so weak in holding up the Bible as the Word of God.

Funny how so many non-Catholics are ignorant of how the Catholic Church not only gave them the very Bible they claim we do not hold up, but apply it to our daily lives. To better understand this, I would invite you to attend mass at a Catholic Church in your local community. You may be surprised at how much Scripture is incorporated into the liturgy and the reverence given to the Word of God.

The second thing that happened was when I quietly slipped into the basement chapel down at Marquette, Gesu. They were having a noon Mass and I had never gone to Mass before. I slipped in. I sat down in the back pew. I didn't kneel. I didn't genuflect, I wouldn't stand. I was an observer; I was there to watch. But I was surprised when 40, 50, 60, 80, or 100 ordinary folk just walked in off the street for midday Mass, ordinary folk who just came in, genuflected, knelt and prayed. Then a bell rang and they all stood up and Mass began. I had never seen it before.

The Liturgy of the Word was so rich, not only the Scripture readings. They read more Scripture, I thought, in a weekday Mass than we read in a Sunday service. But their prayers were soaked with Biblical language and phrases from Isaiah and Ezekiel. I sat there saying, "Man, stop the show, let me explain your prayers. That's Zechariah; that's Ezekiel. Wow! It's like the Bible coming to life and dancing out on the center stage and saying, "This is where I belong."

The Scott Hahn Conversion Story

[Iscool]

John also says that it is not all written down.

John says everthing worth knowing for you and me for salvation IS written down...What didn't get written obviously isn't beneficial instruction for Christians...

[Iscool]

Where is the word, Trinity, in the Bible? Thank you for proving the value of Holy Tradition.

If your religion didn't get the knowledge of the Trinity from the bible (400 years after it was written), where did they get it from???

[Iscool]

All you have to do is check on the Councils held from the Council of Jerusalem onward.

The real church didn't bother with coucils...No need for them...

[mlizzy]

They were having a noon Mass and I had never gone to Mass before. I slipped in. I sat down in the back pew. I didn't kneel. I didn't genuflect, I wouldn't stand. I was an observer; I was there to watch. But I was surprised when 40, 50, 60, 80, or 100 ordinary folk just walked in off the street for midday Mass, ordinary folk who just came in, genuflected, knelt and prayed. Then a bell rang and they all stood up and Mass began. I had never seen it before. The Liturgy of the Word was so rich, not only the Scripture readings. They read more Scripture, I thought, in a weekday Mass than we read in a Sunday service.

Very interesting; this is how I came to know the Church as well, and coincidentally, it was a noon Mass for me too. Many noon Masses, actually. Scores of people [usually over 100] giving up their lunches to receive the daily Bread of Christ. Spectacular!

[Iscool]

Instead of pulling; we will pray for you.

Mary's going to straighten out his improper view of the scripture, eh???

[Iscool]

Scripture and Apostolic Tradition derive from the same source and therefore cannot be in opposition.

Where is your evidence??? Just one little scrap of something??? Anything???

[Iscool]

That was too easy...

[Iscool]

you can't receive Him 'until' you become a Catholic

I have received Jesus Christ and I won't go any where near a Catholic church...