Can you smell what The Rock is cookin'?
Posted on 10/13/2013 1:45:58 PM PDT by NYer
If you stick around this thread long enough you will see just that.
There is a group of around 10 or so that will come out of the woodwork making quite a few bizarre comments.
Pull up a chair get some popcorn, soda, maybe even some milk duds and enjoy the show.
Greek and Aramaic translations, please. Thank you.
That difference in meaning doesn’t really exist in the Greek spoken at the time of Christ. But in any case, as John 1:43 shows, Jesus named Peter “Cephas” in Aramaic, which is the exact same word as “Rock.” In Aramaic it’s Cephas and cephas; literally translating that to Greek would give you Petra and petra, which is a problem, since Petra is feminine, and can’t be used as a man’s name. So St. Matthew renders it as the male Petros instead.
Yes.
Best answer yet.
One must always consider the ‘typological’ when reflecting upon Scripture & Miracles etc.
Yes.
Best answer yet.
One must always consider the ‘typological’ when reflecting upon Scripture & Miracles etc.
Through the laying on of hands, the "Chair of Peter" has been passed down for 2000 years. Here is the list, from Wikipedia, an independent source.
If you take a verse out of context and tortureshalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach
it sufficiently. it will yield to one's eisegesis.
Please show me the scriptural passage where Jesus orders his words to be recorded in a specific language for future generations.
Reluctant to speak on this because I thought the Roman church acknowledged its errors at VaticanII. Excuse spelling but Tellhard de Jardine’s beliefs were pretty much accepted and Protestant dogma as a consequence. The priest was removed from being in the middle between G-d and man. Indeed the rites for treatment of the host have withered and congregants now can take the bread and pass the cup.
Peter’s name means rock but.... that whole ship has sailed.
It’s interesting to me that all scripture refers to God as the Rock and one even declaring that God knows of no other Rock yet in one small verse the RCC has declared that Peter is the Rock the church is built on.
Can you smell what The Rock is cookin'?
Totally agree, that is why I posted this thread. Again, the topic is God choosing Simon to lead His Church. Your comment was scripturally unrelated since Moses was NOT G-D.
Pax et Bonum
Small verse? Show me another one from Scripture where Jesus singles out one individual and .... to cite the author ...
In the span of just three of those verses, Jesus addresses Peter personally ten times.
There is NOTHING small about that verse.
Can I ask which to which Church you are referring? The Kingdom, Messianic Church, or the Church the Body of Christ?
From where did you copy and paste this and why isn’t in a readable format?
Even Roman Catholic scholars admit that a Roman papal primacy was unheard of for the first three centuries of the Christian church. This so-called "Chair of Peter", if it existed at all back then, would have been one of a succession of carrying on the truths as taught by Jesus and as revealed to Paul and the others as told in the New Testament epistles and gospels. The ONLY reason why Roman Catholics insist that Peter was the first Pope, and base that on the sole verse of Matthew 16:18, is because they consider their church as the ONLY true church established by Jesus Christ.
It doesn't matter that, through the ages many errors have developed within the church of Rome, they are ignored or brushed off as insignificant because of the promise they deem was made to Peter and by default ALL those who came after him. There is a haughty and exclusive elitism that gets justified because of this ONE falsely interpreted verse. IF Peter was the "rock" Jesus meant rather than Jesus being the rock and faith in Him the foundation of the Body of Christ, then there is NO Scriptural proof that this role could be passed down from Peter and those he may have laid hands upon and they laid hands upon ad infinitum. The Apostles and disciples of Jesus were personally endowed by Christ with the establishment of the ministry of the church and they handed down the rule of the faith not some mystical "gift" that automatically conferred a special power. This was their understanding from the start and it became perverted as the centuries passed into this exclusivity we see today by the Roman Catholic Church.
Matthew 16:18 I also moreover to you say That you are Peter and on this the rock I will build my church and [the]gates of hades not will prevail against it.
Jesus didn’t say “on this rock”, He said “on this the rock. Now what does the rest of scripture say is the rock? It’s God in every instance.
Deut. 32:4 He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.
2 Sam. 22:2 And he said, The LORD is my rock, and my fortress, and my deliverer; 3 The God of my rock; in him will I trust: he is my shield, and the horn of my salvation, my high tower, and my refuge, my saviour; thou savest me from violence.
Psalm 18:31, "And who is a rock, except our God."
Isaiah 44:8, "Is there any God besides Me, or is there any other Rock? I know of none."
Rom. 9:33, "Behold, I lay in Zion a stone of stumbling and a rock of offense, and he who believes in Him will not be disappointed."
1 Cor. 3:11, "For no man can lay a foundation other than the one which is laid, which is Jesus Christ,"
1 Cor. 10:4, "and all drank the same spiritual drink, for they were drinking from a spiritual rock (petras) which followed them; and the rock (petra) was Christ."
Scripture is pretty clear who the rock is. Even St Augustine made a statement.
St Augustine wrote: ‘For on this very account the Lord said, On this rock will I build my Church, because Peter had said, You are the Christ, the Son of the living God. On this rock, therefore, He said, which you have confessed, I will build my Church. For the Rock was Christ; and on this foundation was Peter himself also built. For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Christ Jesus’ (Augustine, Tractate 124, 5).
Then this interesting tid bit hidden away in the Catechism of the Catholic Church.
424 Moved by the grace of the Holy Spirit and drawn by the Father, we believe in Jesus and confess: 'You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.' On the rock of this faith confessed by St. Peter, Christ built his Church. "To preach. . . the unsearchable riches of Christ"
Catholics tell us all the time how the church is built on Peter but the RCC itself says it’s on the confession of Peter.
Are you sure you want to disagree with both scripture and what the RCC has in it’s Catechism?
"According to the GRACE of God which is GIVEN UNTO ME, as a wise MASTERBUILDER, I HAVE LAID THE FOUNDATION, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. For OTHER FOUNDATION can NO MAN LAY than that IS LAID, WHICH IS JESUS CHRIST."1 Cor. 3:10,11.
Do you see what Paul is saying here? He says HE is the masterbuilder and has laid the foundation of grace, given to him by God. He goes on to say that NO MAN can lay any other foundation, the foundation being JESUS CHRIST. NOT PETER. So "the Rock" of Matt. 16:18 cannot POSSIBLY be Peter. It MUST be Jesus Christ.
424 Moved by the grace of the Holy Spirit and drawn by the Father, we believe in Jesus and confess: 'You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.' On the rock of this faith confessed by St. Peter, Christ built his Church.9 "To preach. . . the unsearchable riches of Christ"
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