Posted on 09/06/2013 7:15:37 AM PDT by Alex Murphy
“Any church or group which claims exclusivity, in that you have to go through them to get to God, is absolutely a cult.”
Well, they have to meet a couple more standards to qualify under the usual definition of a cult, like coercing people to break off contact with their families, or shunning non-members. If they only meet some of the standards, I would just say they are “cult-like”.
Uh, have you read the comments around here directed to non-catholics? From catholics? Oh,it’s bigger than cult-like. Talk about “shunning non-members..” and as far as breaking off contact with their families...No need to, their entire families, going back 10,000 years ARE members.
My entire family on my mother’s side is Catholic, but I am not. They don’t shun me, nor has anyone from the Catholic church ever told them not to have contact with me. So I don’t base my opinions on a few comments on FR, but actual real-life experience with a great many Catholics, and they do not meet those standards for a cult.
Some of the other characteristics is putting their teachings above the Word of God. Depending on extra-Biblical revelation.
I don’t think that any group has to have ALL the characteristics to be classified as a cult.
Well, if you want to use those standards, then yes, a group should meet all of them before you classify it a true cult. If you want to make up your own standards, then I guess you can call whatever groups you want cults.
Sorry, Redmonquey, if I sounded like it was personal. Just thought you were lumping all of us non-Catholics together.
Some denominations have strayed so far from truth though that they cannot be taken seriously and Prosperity stuff falls squarely in that category.
I do believe there are Catholics who are born again, but as an institution I believe it is as far gone as the Prosperity folks.
As for me, it is just I, my bible, and the Lord and that’s all I need. Institutionalized religion is not for me, but if I had to show my face in a church again it would probably be Baptist or Southern Baptist. I love to listen to Charles Stanley preach...best I have ever heard.
God bless,
Jodyel
I am 52 years old...hardly a spring chicken. And I reckon I know as much about it as any priest or nun. Try taking a peek outside the Catholic church and asking someone not in that institution. Listen to Charles Stanley’s sermons...excellent and full of the wise counsel of the Holy Spirit.
Anything can be justified. I have no need of the worldly beauty of a church building and I’ve never traveled much or lived in great places. I have all the beauty I need
living within me in the person of Christ. As long as one has Him, everything else pales. Store up treasure in heaven and not on earth.
There is nothing wrong with a comfortable place of worship, but the beauty of Jesus shines forth from those who know Him and not thru any earthly building. Letting earthly treasure be your representation of Christ is completely missing the opportunity to let Him shine forth from you.
God bless,
Jodyel
Saints are born-again believers in Jesus Christ, of which I am one.
Saints are not proclaimed such by any religious institution but I know that concept has been brainwashed into you by your religion.
You are a saint, Thomas, if you have been born again and the Holy Spirit lives in you. It comes from God...not man and not religion and not church.
We are justified by Christ’s work on the cross, therefore I justify nothing myself. I’ve no need of anything or anyone but Him to call myself saint.
You should try Jesus and come out of that man-made religion. It is very freeing knowing that all one need do is believe in Jesus, and that He and His atoning work are all it takes for us to be called His saints and His friends.
God bless,
jodyel
It is not shocking to me at all. Just a phenomenal waste and excess where none is needed.
Yes, I do believe I know what God intended art to be and this is not it.
It was right for Mary to anoint His feet with costly perfume and it was right for the wise men to bring costly gifts at His birth. He is King of Kings and Lord of Lords and deserves our best. However, even when He died His body was not adorned in this manner. He was gone and there was no need. As I’ve said, the dead have need of nothing from the living except a dignified burial.
Jesus has departed from this physical world and no longer has any need for our earthly treasures. But He has left us the Holy Spirit who gives us discernment in the correct use of our money and talents.
And, I believe, He is sorely grieved at many things in institutionalized religions such as Catholicism.
God bless,
jodyel
I am a born-again believer in Jesus and I am a saint...I do not know if any of those people you have mentioned were born again or not but if they were then they too are saints in God’s eyes. We are considered justified as saints by believing in the atoning work of Jesus on the cross and by nothing else.
I believe there will be Reformed, Protestant, and Catholic saints in heaven, and all will have arrived there because they placed their trust in Jesus and not in a religion or building or institution.
God bless,
jodyel
Your statement indicates to me that you don't have a very good understanding of what Christ's Church teaches regarding sainthood, canonization and salvation, since you seem to conflate the three.
Regarding formal canonization, the Church teaches that there are many saints in heaven beyond those that are formally recognized by the Church through the process of canonization.
Regarding Church authority, you know that King James didn't hand out Bibles at Pentecost, so why do you reject the Authority that wrote, preserved, and canonized the Bible? Ironically, doing so undermines Luther's doctrine of "the Bible alone" as the sole rule of faith. If you can't trust the Authority that wrote, preserved and canonized the Bible, how can you trust the Bible?
You are a saint, Thomas, if you have been born again and the Holy Spirit lives in you.
What does this statement mean to you?
The passage that I believe you are referring to is a reference to baptism.
The doctrine that you are likely espousing derives from the so-called Protestant "reformers," or more accurately, revolutionaries or heretics. Where do they derive their authority? Why do you trust their interpretation of Scripture?
There are many passages in Scripture regarding salvation. It's a subject that defies such a simplistic and counterintuitive doctrine.
The Catechism of the Catholic Church is a great resource for Church teaching regarding salvation: Chapt. 3: God's Salvation: Law and Grace
Catholic Answers provides a very accessible, brief overview and refutation of the "once saved, always saved" doctrine:
Listen to yourself....THE CHURCH, THE CHURCH, THE CHURCH...all you quote is what the Catholic church has taught you.
“THE CHURCH” IS THE BODY OF BELIEVERS WHO ARE BORN AGAIN BY ACCEPTING THE SACRIFICE JESUS MADE FOR THEM...PERIOD. AND PROOF OF THAT BELIEF IS THE INDWELLING OF THE HOLY SPIRIT...ALSO CALLED BAPTISM OF THE SPIRIT.
I do not know what you refer to by “reject the Authority that wrote, preserved, and canonized the Bible?” If you refer to the Catholic church, then by all means I reject it. I am not a bible scholar so I am sure some others here can rebut your arguments better than I, but I darn sure know the Catholic church does not hold the copyright or patent on the bible. I am saved by the blood of Christ and I need nothing else...certainly not your man-made religion. No church is in authority over me....no man or woman or anyone else or anything else is in authority over me except the Lord Himself.
That statement to me means “baptism” by the Holy Spirit...not sprinkling, not dunking, nothing to do with water at all. You are not born-again until you are baptized with the Spirit. And you would know if you had been. The fact you are questioning this tells me right away that you are not....that you are relying on Catholic doctrine to get you to heaven. Believe it or not, some of us who say we are born again and baptized by the Spirit really are.
And why is it that Catholics can only quote their own catechism? I never see anything else...like the bible. God can work thru any translation and any language and let anyone know the truth...just as He did in the days before there even was a bible.
Faith is simple enough for a little child, but your “religion” has made it so much harder than it needs to be.
Once saved, always saved is exactly right, but I wouldn’t expect to see it in a false religion. All you see is your Catholic Church and its authority and its false doctrine. You are not obliged to ever be in any church building to know God.
If all that ritual and what-not makes you think you’ve got yourself covered, then by all means run on with it. But it is nonsense. Faith so simple a small child could understand is it in a nutshell and I am afraid you have missed it.
Good luck to you,
Jodyel
Beautiful post, jodyel. Just perfect :)
Jesus came to Earth and told us exactly how to communicate with God...we did just fine for one thousand six hundred years....then along came the dissidents who thought that they could do better....sad
good grief, God used the Catholic church to mdeliver His message and you refute that????WHO ELSE WAS THERE (whoops) at the time to save, transcribe, edit, preserve, copy (by hand) the scriptures??? Don't you ever read a history book???You have your copy of the bible (I hope it's the entire version) because the Catholic church gave it to you. Why don't people wake up....for one thousand six hundred years the Catholic Church was the only Christian church on Earth,....who do you suspect might have preserved the scriptures for you?????? I’ll give my thanks to God for giving us the Bible, as all praise for the matter belongs to Him.
yeah, yhat's it...John Smythe was certainly the person to follow....never mind Jesus, hE WAS AN OLD TIMER.....PATHETIC.
Jesus spent all that time on Earth establishing His church (Catholic) for you to denigrate His efforts and say that we don't need a church......Oh....O.K.
REALLY???????you're not even a good bible reader..the bible clearly points out that Catholicism is the church which Christ founded...you can blather about Luther, Calvin, Zwingley and others, but they had no right to change anything in a 1,600 year old religion.
Discuss the issues all you want, but do not make it personal.
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