Posted on 07/14/2013 3:02:43 PM PDT by NYer
Sound rather personal to me.
Why anyone would want to pray to a dead saint is beyond me. God is in control of this earth. He is the one who saves and keeps us. All of us dead or alive.
You mean being quoted directly means that these all His words in the gospels are exactly verbatim? And that these words are not thru the same Spirit who provides other quotes attributed to the Lord Jesus elsewhere? And that the latter, and all words by other persons (such as provide explanation of the gospels) are a lesser authority, so that laity may read these in Mass, unlike the gospels?
And does establishing writings as being Scripture require a magisterium with assured infallibility, and submission to it?
If Bergoglio decided to banish the Pauline epistles from the Bible what would your response be? Does he possess that authority?
Or what if a council were held, let’s call it Vatican III, and the council decreed that the canon no longer included the Genesis because it’s so controversial and archaic in light of modern science. Would they have that infallible authority? Would you accept that decision?
Is the Catechism of the Catholic Church infallible? Do you accept it in full? After all it was prepared by the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith under the direction of then Cardinal Ratzinger and approved personally by Pope John Paul II.
God's Church is ALIVE and WELL as HIS WORD is, also. 'Man -made teachings have NO power and have NO authority vs. the POWER OF HOLY Spirit inspired Word...
"For the Word of God is ALIVE and ACTIVE. Sharper than any double-edged sword, IT penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; IT judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart."
“Still no answer from any Protestant regarding the authority that acted infallibly in determining the canon of Scripture”
I both answered your question and then illustrated it appropriately.
God is the ONLY infallible authority that exists in heaven or on earth.
The authority you are clacking is as infallible as Balaam’s donkey.
...and ranks up there with the rooster who believes his crowing causes the sun to rise.
You responded in a post that was a response to mine. Go ahead, deny you were taking a cowardly shot at me.
Actually what it shows is cowardice on the part of a certain protestant. Not mentioning anyone in particular or quoting them. But she know who she is.
To know history is to cease to be protestant.
To know Scripture is to cease to be Catholic.
_____________________________________
We are all Christians. To allow satan to divide us is to be very foolish...and sinful. Please forgive me if I have been foolish in this way.
“We are all Christians. To allow satan to divide us is to be very foolish...and sinful. Please forgive me if I have been foolish in this way.”
+1
If someone has entrusted himself to Christ for salvation, I consider them a br’er in Christ.
I enjoy talking through issues, but I don’t see the need for animosity.
Your thought on this is one of wisdom. I will go further and say that I have always believed that Jesus wants us all as ONE (His last prayer before ascending to the Father) for a reason...an important reason, particularly at this juncture of history.
Let us pray for one another...because this ONENESS is not something we humans can achieve....apart from the grace of God.
How many times do you have to hear it??? God is the authority...
Do you think that both the Gospels and the Epistles are divinely inspired?
Why won't any Protestants answer?
They have and they do. Boatbums has provided that answer many times over.
What about you? Can YOU tell us infallibly?
Godwin’s Law.
I win.
Ping me if you get an answer.
I’ll break out the popecorn.
“Let us pray for one another...because this ONENESS is not something we humans can achieve....apart from the grace of God.”
As is true of a life that honors God.
The Gospels end with the Crucifixion and Resurrection of Jesus, and it was not until then that those Old Testament figures were redeemed, and their souls went to heaven.
The rest of the New Testament contains mostly letters written to address various problems or situations in the Church, as well as accounts of some of the major actions of the early Church, and they do not contain very many references at all to any of the prayers being said at the time, so it means nothing that you do not see any references to those Christians asking those dead saints to pray for them.
Do you see any references to the Apostles (or anyone else) actually praying "The Lord's Prayer" ("The Our Father") anywhere in the New Testament, after Jesus gave them that very special prayer (as recorded in Matthew and Luke)?
(The purpose of the "books" of the New testament was NOT to document all the prayers they made, even though we can assume that they were praying constantly. God did not deem it necessary to document all the prayers they made, or He would have had all that information included somewhere in those New Testament "books".)
Does the fact that you do not see any such references whatsoever to the "Our Father" in the rest of the New Testament mean that none of those Christians in the early Church were praying it?
Of course it doesn't mean that!
Matthew 28:18-20 Then Jesus came to them and said, All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.
ALL authority was given to Jesus, so He commanded us to make disciples and teach them.
He was given to be the head over all things.
Ephesians 1:22-23 22 And he put all things under his feet and gave him as head over all things to the church, 23 which is his body, the fullness of him who fills all in all.
Like I told you daniel1212, the source you used is from a dissident Jesuit priest (Father Felix) who is strongly against many of the teachings of the Catholic Church.
Source (again): Site Review - "Catholic Resources"
(Please read it again.)
(Did you somehow miss the part where they explicitly state as their overall rating of that web site -- "Fidelity: Danger!", saying by that that this dissident priest's fidelity (or lack thereof) to the teachings of the Church raise the red danger flag?) His entire web site content is highly suspect, because of his dissident, anti-Church views, and should be viewed as such.
And again, please remember, if you get all puffed up about your self-professed superior familiarity with the (sinfully truncated) Bible, Satan can run rings about you with his own knowledge of Holy Scripture. I don't think you really want to boast about that too much.
You also make outlandish claims about what most Evangelicals do, and about what most Catholics do. Listen, daniel212, the truth is that you don't even know who most of the Evangelicals in the world ARE, or who most of the Catholics in the ARE, let alone what they all DO.
Do you see these kinds of grand pronouncements which you often make, but which you have no real way of knowing or checking the veracity of, as anything but extremely dishonest, and spurrious pronouncements?
You also try to equate the non-unity of personal beliefs and practices with diunity in the teachings of the Catholic Church. There is really only ONE set of real, true, official Catholic teachings. How individual Catholics relate to those official teachings is merely a reflection of their own choices, but does NOT reflect disunity in the Catholic teachings themselves.
However, the Protestant denominations DO have major, irreconcilable differences in their actual, true, official teachings.
That is the difference.
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