Posted on 07/14/2013 3:02:43 PM PDT by NYer
Yes, but according to Rome this is not “magically.” And if Scripture actually substantiated PTDS in Heaven, versus only and always directly to God , then we would hold to it, as with other major Scriptural doctrines.
“Then why do Catholics quote Scripture to give the Church and Peter their authority?”
Catholics quote scripture to prove that Jesus Christ gave St. Peter this authority and founded his Church.
Again - it is not the bible that grants them this authority, but Christ himself. The bible - as an accurate testimony of Christ’s teachings serves as our witness to Christ’s mission on earth. Part of which includes the disciples and the founding the Church with the Apostles, Pentecost, and the coming of the Holy Spirit in Acts, etc.
Again, all these things happened before even the first Gospel was written.
Which Luther did not do, as has been demonstrated time and again and even on this very threads.
Doesn't the Catholic church version of the Bible include in the Ten Commandments the prohibition against bearing false witness?
Does the bible teach that the Saints cannot pray for us?
That's interesting because we have other sources posted here that say the supreme authority for Catholics is either the pope or the "Church".
The Bible doesn’t even teach sainthood as the Catholic church practices it.
In Scripture the term *saint* is used to identify ANY believer, not those canonized by the RCC. There is no precedent for that teaching or practice.
By your own words you are saying that you use circular reasoning, so why should we believe anything the Church has to say about anything?
The bible was written by the Church to prove the Church is the only way to salvation. Joseph Smith wrote the same things.
As soon as you claimed the RCC is more authoritative than God, you lost all respect, and entered into cult status. I have long suspected that the RCC was a cult, but this just cements it.
“IOW, when the pope was infallibly speaking”
When was the doctrine of papal infalliability promulgated?
Which declarations by the pope are considered part of papal infalliability?
“the infallibility claimed for the pope is the same in its nature, scope, and extent as that which the Church as a whole possesses; his ex cathedra teaching does not have to be ratified by the Church’s in order to be infallible.”
This is important. Papal infalliability is an extension of the infalliability of the Magisterium as a whole.
“infallibility is not attributed to every doctrinal act of the pope, but only to his ex cathedra teaching; and the conditions required for ex cathedra teaching are mentioned in the Vatican decree”
Tome to Flavian”, Pope Leo I, 449, on the two natures in Christ, received by the Council of Chalcedon;
2.Letter of Pope Agatho, 680, on the two wills of Christ, received by the Third Council of Constantinople;
3.Benedictus Deus, Pope Benedict XII, 1336, on the beatific vision of the just after death rather than only just prior to final judgment;[70]
4.Cum occasione, Pope Innocent X, 1653, condemning five propositions of Jansen as heretical;
5.Auctorem fidei, Pope Pius VI, 1794, condemning seven Jansenist propositions of the Synod of Pistoia as heretical;
6.Ineffabilis Deus, Pope Pius IX, 1854, defining the Immaculate Conception;
7.Munificentissimus Deus, Pope Pius XII, 1950, defining the Assumption of Mary.
There’s the list.
“In Scripture the term *saint* is used to identify ANY believer, not those canonized by the RCC.”
Then you should be able to cite the scripture passage that says that all believers are saints.
“By your own words you are saying that you use circular reasoning, so why should we believe anything the Church has to say about anything?”
Ok.
So you believe the Church is wrong.
If, in fact, the Church came before and wrote Sacred Scripture, AND the Church cannot be trusted in anything that they wrote
THEN - from both premises, Sacred Scripture cannot be trusted. This is my point. You cannot divorce Sacred Scripture from Tradition.
“As soon as you claimed the RCC is more authoritative than God”
Do you believe that the Apostles were members of the Roman Catholic church?
“So—it’s only an accurate witness. It’s not actually the Word of God.”
If Scripture is a lie then it has no spiritual authority whatsoever. Scripture has spiritual authority as it IS an accurate account of Jesus and his ministry.
“Denominations don’t save so belonging to one is meaningless.”
So - do you actually attend church on Sundays? If so, where do you go?
Don't forget at various times the momanator has claimed to be Catholic and/ or attended a Catholic Church so she knows EVERTHING about Catholicism
Why would I? The RCC didn't exist then.
An accurate account is not Scriptural authority. They are not equal.
Exactly - our faith stands on the the power of God as revealed through scripture.
That's a mighty big IF--and one I do not accept.
“No, it’s not. It’s all part of the same doctrine. You should examine the doctrine first before attacking it’s origins.”
Post your evidence that they can and do hear your prayers.
I’m listening...
“Post your evidence that they can and do hear your prayers.”
Seriously. Go read the doctrine. You say they are separate things, they are not.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.