Posted on 06/01/2013 9:46:17 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans
The eating literal flesh and drinking literal blood of the gods goes back to paganism and is a not so subtle lie of Satan that Christ was talking about His literal blood and flesh. The Jewish followers that left thought Jesus actually meant the literal flesh and blood. That’s why they left. They didn’t understand that He was talking spiritually not literally just like the Catholics do today.
Of course He has.
Acts 15:8 And God, who knows the heart, bore witness by granting them the holy Spirit just as he did us. 9 He made no distinction between us and them, for by faith he purified their hearts.
We have the same Holy Spirit given to the apostles to give us understanding. Catholics have been told they do not have that same Spirit by the cult of the RCC in order to maintain control over them. It’s time to “Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues”.
“Either the bread and wine are literally turned into the actual flesh and blood of Jesus. Or they are not and they are a symbolic representation of the spiritual reality.”
If Jesus Christ instructs us to “...eat this...this is my Body.”
I will do as HE instructs.
“Or the interpretation is that the eating and drinking is symbolic”
Scripture is clear that it is not symbolic and the Early Christians believed in the Real Presence as seen through Scripture and the Early Church Fathers.
“Jesus blood was poured out. It’s gone.”
If Jesus desired it so, he would appear before us in full Divinity, flesh and blood. He makes the rules, not us.
“Nor is there any record of the whole ceremony...to change the host and wine into the literal body and blood of Jesus.”
He said it so. Thus, it is so.
We have an all powerful God.
I am sad that he is so conflicted with his faith. He speaks as if he had to choose between Jesus and the RC Church. An either - or situatoin. Since Jesus established the Church, there ought not to be a conflict, and it is only in his mind.
I pray that his faith does not deteriorate any further, as I really want him to remain faithful to his Savior, and if that is the only way he can do it, then so be it.
The insulting sneers, the gotchas, the profound ignorance expressed is contemptible and all the more so when done by those who call themselves Christian.
Thanks for your post, MM, would that others attempt your example.
I intended to respond to MM’s # 79
As a "veteran" of this forum, I wonder, if "it" gets so old and is just old ground, then why are there STILL nearly daily threads posted by Catholics challenging and provoking all the Christians who aren't Catholics that repeat the SAME subjects year after year? Is the preferred response to just let them post whatever and whenever and nobody should ever offer a rebuttal? If so, should that also work for the relatively few threads (in comparison) where non-Caths speak about their Christian faith?
The reason why I still choose to participate on some of these is the hope that the Holy Spirit touches the hearts of some that might be reading at just the right time in their lives where the light shines through and the glorious Gospel is illuminated. I'm grateful for the numerous PMs I get that encourage me and let me know that our work is not in vain and God is STILL working in the hearts of mankind.
Such was how I was converted, actually, by reading a debate between a Christian and a heathen. The force of their argument was so powerful, that it was obvious to me that they were corrected. It forced me to review the scripture myself to see whether it was true or not... and it was true, and so here I am.
Typo in previous post. Correct* For some reason I made it past tense.
Beautiful. How quickly we forget. Thanks for reminding us.
Agreed! And how many "forevers" does it take to have eternal life? It seems Jesus, in pretty clear terms, is speaking of a one-time event of "eating" since he says the one who eats this bread SHALL live forever. Believing in/on Him IS eating and drinking Him - not the pretended conjuring that must take place every time where a simple flour and water cracker and ounce of grape juice MUST be transformed into the literal flesh and blood of Jesus (pre-resurrection) in order to be consumed so that eternal life is imparted again and again. It is a "faith" deal all the way! It couldn't be plainer.
I really don't understand the fierce anger and animosity that gets spewed here when some Catholics simply cannot abide that REAL Christians have a different understanding than they do on this subject. Blood has even been spilled because of it! I'm perfectly willing to let the Lord determine who are really his. I have a clear conscience before him and trust that the faith I have been given is true and that I have everlasting life through Christ.
I suspect the fierce anger is due to demonic influence.
Believers in fellowship with God through faith in Christ are living a spiritual life. We have more power than ever given in all human history to perform His Will by His Plan in spiritual warfare.
Fallen angels don’t care too much if humans don’t have faith in Christ, because they pose no spiritual threat to their domain. Nor do they bother too much with believers out of fellowship with Him, because they are easily distracted and pose little direct spiritual opposition to their agendas.
Believers who remain in fellowship with Him, though, and those who reinforce His Plan, become their targets for distraction, spiritual temptation, and influence. When unable to influence the devout directly, they turn to those around them and influence their thinking either in human good or in evil to interrupt the spiritual advance of believers.
One indirect method to discern when your faith is sound, is when we are attacked the most by those who fail to place Him first in all things.
It seems to be a compulsion, as they must preach a particular church, against which no contrary thoughts are to be allowed.
“...cracker and ounce of grape juice MUST be transformed into the literal flesh and blood of Jesus (pre-resurrection) in order to be consumed so that eternal life is imparted again and again. It is a “faith” deal all the way! It couldn’t be plainer.”
Apparently, it’s not so plain.
You’ve gotten The Eucharist perfectly wrong. Ignorance is not bliss, you can go to ewtn.com or other Catholic websites and learn the true meaning of the Eucharist, if you wish to critique the Sacrament, correctly.
“REAL Christians have a different understanding than they do on this subject.”
I’m sure many REAL Christians do not always believe the Catholic Church. But it is so, that some demand in their own vanity to choose which Scripture they will take literally and which they will cast off as symbolic.
When it comes to different interpretations of Scripture and Doctrine, I’ll go with Jesus, His Apostles and those Church Fathers that were closest to them over Bob,Carol, Ted and Alice’s private interpretation or their local reverend.
This assertion is by no means new, so, as i have asked RCs before, is your position that that unless one has the sanction of those who are the instrument and steward of Scripture and Divine revelation, having historical descent, then they have no authority?
Yes.
I'm beginning to think that would be a marked improvement.
Does that work both ways, then?
Has to I think.
To be able to perform at all during warfare one would have to have confidence in their equipment.Wether it's offensive ie:sword or defensive ie:helmet.How hard could a soldier fight when he doubts the effectiveness of the ONLY weapon he's been issued? Or has one hand holding onto his helmet and a mind full of doubts as to wether it will function properly.I suppose such a soldier might puff his chest out,make a lot of noise and hurl insults at the enemy but he isn't really fooling anyone other than himself and when the SHTF he will be rendered worse than useless.
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