Posted on 04/15/2013 5:06:15 PM PDT by DouglasKC
I’m speechless and that ain’t no small thing.
Why thank you!
To live and conduct business as a Jew in Jerusalem in Jesus’s day one could handle Greek, Latin, Hebrew and Aramaic. I don’t doubt that many of the Disciples could read and write, probably in more than one language. A tax collector would use Hebrew, Latin, and probably Aramaic andf Greek. Even a man with a fish business would use more than one language there.
Over the years debating with the Sola Scriptura crowd, I have used these and other verses to demonstrate that you could just as easily interpret it to mean a plurality of gods ala the Greeks or Romans.. You needed the teaching authority of the Catholic Church through the Magesterium to settle the matter.
It is easy for us to see these things in hindsight, but you might want to go back and look at the history of the Trinity and the incarnation to see how our understanding of them came to be.
?? They came to be because people, who have read the word, found out that there was God, then there was a whole bunch of people- and there Moses- and a pillar of fire and a cloud of smoke, then there was Jesus- who was at the foundation. Jesus told us that he came from the Father and was sending us the comforter.
The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.
Pretty simple. Just read the Bible. There is no other conclusion to reach.
:) Ok..BUT- I don’t understand what you mean by “hindsight”. Do people not comprehend the Bible, WHILE they are reading it???
Totally confusing to me that people really do not seem to understand the Bible.
It is just a storybook- a love letter- why is it so hard for people to read it and understand it?
I think you made a mistake here friend if "UCG" is United Church of God.
It's not the teaching of the bible or UCG that Jesus and the father are the same...and none of the rest of that statement is what UCG believes either. Can you please clarify?
Thanks!
Totally confusing to me that people really do not seem to understand the Bible.
It is just a storybook- a love letter- why is it so hard for people to read it and understand it?
Well to begin with The Jewish people had all the prophecies of the OT and did not recognize the Messiah when he walked among them. The Jewish people lived every aspect of the law. They memorized the books and didn't recognize him.
Now flash forward 300 years to the council of Nicea. there are burning questions that have not been settled. 1) Is Christ divine?
2) Was He half human half divine, or fully human and fully divine at the same time?
As I said looking at it after it has been settled we can see it but back then it was not.
Also keep in mind the canon of the NT was not ordered until 393 and 397 at the councils of Hippo and Carthage.
Don't feel bad editor-surveyor.....Greetings_Puny_Human believes in worshipping the devil!
Otherwise, it is there for all to see. God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit
Matthew 3: 16 As soon as Jesus was baptized, he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and lighting on him. 17 And a voice from heaven said, “This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased.”
2 Peter 1:16 We did not follow cleverly invented stories when we told you about the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of his majesty. 17 For he received honor and glory from God the Father when the voice came to him from the Majestic Glory, saying, "This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased." 18 We ourselves heard this voice that came from heaven when we were with him on the sacred mountain. 19 And we have the word of the prophets made more certain, and you will do well to pay attention to it, as to a light shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts. 20 Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet's own interpretation. 21 For prophecy never had its origin in the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.
Absolutely true my friend. We would not have an understanding of the trinity today if not for the Catholic church!
:) The Catholic church has done nothing for me personally, I read the Bible. I understand what I am reading as the word of God. The Jewish has faith has done far more for me, in understanding and teaching...
I just don’t understand why others don’t understand what they are reading.
I think you might want to go back and read Exodus. Moses and the burning bush is the splashiest story about the Holy Spirit- but even Abraham knew the saving powers of following the Holy Spirit. In fact, Mary and Joesph recognized God and the Holy Spirit. Anna knew the Messiah... The people who followed and obeyed in the desert... Joshua... Isaiah.. The did not need any Catholics to tell them what to do.. Ezekiel, Jeremiah, Daniel.. There were people walking in obedience to God’s voice- (the Spirit of the law- the Holy Spirit) for many, many years- before the Catholics showed up.
Just sayin’
All Christians believe this. As a Roman Catholic Christian (I despise all the labels) I believe this as all Roman Catholics do. The question to ask yourself is: Did Paul believe that all the letters that he wrote were sacred scripture? Did Paul read Revelation? Did he approve? The question about several of the "Catholic" epistles even being scripture (Luther had a problem with them) is another argument that has perplexed the 2 Timothy 3:16 quote.
One absolutely has to refer to Church authority when it comes to what is scripture and what is not. And that is what Arthur was stating.
Deacon Francis
I have done all i can. I spoke the truth to you in love and compassion. You havee chosen to reject it, that is your choice.
That's like throwing the baby out with the bathwater!
Matthew 3: 16 As soon as Jesus was baptized, he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and lighting on him. 17 And a voice from heaven said, “This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased.”
There sure is a father and a son. And the fact that their spirit is working on earth and in believers is undisputable. But there is no scriptural evidence that indicates that the holy spirit is a separate "person" in the Godhead in heaven!
Well to be fair the problem with the Jews was that their tradition had put scripture in second place. Their learned interpretations and opinions of scripture were in error and they had lost their way because of tradition.
But once Christ began to teach them that their tradition was screwing things up, many began to REALLY read the scriptures without the prism of incorrect tradition screwing things up.
The wool fell off from their eyes.
I was referring to the use of this verse by sola scriptura advocates. It would support their position if it said that ONLY Scripture contains the deposit of faith.
Scott Hahn was an adult, a student preparing for the ministry, when he first noticed that the verse said “ALL” rather than “ONLY.”
Oh for sure.. the lessons to be learned is how the Jews, save small groups of people and small tribes, did not obey the voice of God, and when Jesus came in flesh, he told us to look at the Spirit of the Law, not the letter of the law. That is why he was making his stand as a Rabbi from the House of Hillel and walking out the gospel, his ministry and then dying a powerful death- making the story complete. BUT it started at the beginning and then with the Jews- and ended with Jesus. It is a full and complete story. We can’t start in the middle. We have to read the beginning to see where they made their error and WHO made the error. There were always small groups of people who obey the commandment to follow the voice of God. When the word became flesh- and gave sound and blood to the word- we have a good map of what to do.
There is a reason why we see how hard it was for them to follow the voice, before the word became flesh. It is for our benefit to contemplate that very thing. :)
God loves us- so he imparts these things to us.
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