Posted on 04/08/2013 9:22:31 AM PDT by DouglasKC
Are those who believe in Jesus Christ as in the Holy Trinity, trinitarians, part of the church your article describes?
Beats me. Only Jesus knows who are his. He gave us hints though:
Mat 7:15 "Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves.
Mat 7:16 You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles?
Mat 7:17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit.
Mat 7:18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit.
Mat 7:19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
Mat 7:20 Therefore by their fruit you will know them.
Mat 7:21 "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?'
Mat 7:23 And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!'
Christ indicates that there will be MANY who will claim to follow him but their lawlessness, their sin, the antipathy of the law of God, will mark them out.
Paul says much the same thing though in a different way:
Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness,
Gal 5:20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies,
Gal 5:21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
Gal 5:23 gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law.
Christianity today, as I'm sure you will agree, is chock full of those who claim Christ yet practice and espouse all sorts of lawlessness. Whether or not they embrace the tradition of the trinity matters little at that point.
Yes of course...for the church is made up of Christian believers from all walks of life, from various cultures, and peculiarities. It was so when He walked among us, and after that.
That's not to say there isn't error happening....the church doesn't do a very good job of identifying the “wolfs” Jesus expressly said would be among us.
But there are no perfect church denominations or otherwise apart from the centrality of Jesus Christ being foremost among it's believers.
See post above...I think as we progress closer and closer to the end times that the term "Christian" will be widely embraced but not wisely practiced. Many will come in the name of Christ but will reject what he actually taught and believed.
Oops!.....That's what many cults and false religions say as well, so does the New Age Spirituality......that is no indication you should continue with them....but it gives people a ‘false’ sense of security to continue, unfortunately.
Armstrong is nothing people should get involved with....it has enough “truth” to entice and then mingles it's own ideology and beliefs with it....as do cults and false religions.
Well THAT was certainly a leap from the previous discussion. Do you NOT think it's fair to verify from scripture what someone teaches you or tells you?? Or to encourage others to do the same? There are numerous examples in scripture of God's people verifying from scripture what Godly practices are.
The term “Christian” has been widely abused for generations...’this is nothing new’.... Many false religions, cults/ and ideologies claim the mantel of “Christian”...when in fact they are not...they serve “another Christ other than the Christ of the Bible, though “blinded” to that fact.
I certainly agree...
The Church of Matthew 16 IS the Great Congregation of the Millennial Reign of Christ.
No, it is a "church" that is not on earth at all, yet.
It's not about "fair"....it's about "Truth". I think you learn how to identify falsehood and false teaching by already knowing and understanding the word of God....and study of.
Those who are taught how to identify counterfeit money are NOT taught what the phony stuff is....they are taught inch by inch, in every minute detail, what 'true' bills look like and are. Thus they can identify the false bills because they are well familiar with what is “real” (truth)
I'm not being critical or condemning but rather am trying to figure out your statements in light of the books of the new testament. Do you believe that only the gospels have authority or do you accept the other books of the new testament as authoritative?
All other factors being equal does it matter? Does it matter if their beliefs concerning who Christ is are trinitarian or whether they more closely resemble those described as Unitarianism, Arianism, Docetism, Nestorianism, Modalism, Subordinationism, Sabellianism… etc.?
Or is the only thing that matters is they do not "espouse all sorts of lawlessness" according to the United Church of God and its adherents.
Can't disagree with that.
2Ti 3:13 But evil men and impostors will grow worse and worse, deceiving and being deceived.
2Ti 3:14 But you must continue in the things which you have learned and been assured of, knowing from whom you have learned them,
2Ti 3:15 and that from childhood you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
2Ti 3:16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,
2Ti 3:17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.
The problem today is that there are very few who know (or want to know!) scripture well enough to combat false teachings and thus avoid being deceived.
I accept the authority of 66 Books, the Whole Bible. Which "Church" a passage is dealing with must be determined from the context where the word "church" is used.
The "church" of the Pauline Epistles is the Body of Christ of the current dispensation. The "church" of Acts 7:38 refers to the congregation, the assembly, of Old Testament Israel. "Church" in at least 115 passages in the New Testament refers to a local visible assembly of born-again Christians. The "church" of Matthew 16, however, is a believing congregation in an earthly, royal, Davidic, and Millennial Kingdom and has keys used for entrance.
You can ask me my opinion directly instead of objectifying me and minimizing me...I promise I'll be civil. :-)
If you are asking my opinion I would say that of course doctrine matters. Doctrine is there because the Lord knows that it's the best way for us to grow and develop in his son's love. Doctrine is the guide, the framework, that the holy spirit uses to bring us up into spiritual maturity.
Now I'm equally aware that there are wolves in sheep clothing who may pretend to have the love of Christ but of course don't. They can exist as surely in a church that has false doctrine as well as those that teach Godly doctrine.
I can see that about matthew 16. I've always believed that the rock that the church is built on is Christ though...his church (the called out ones not an organization) ARE not going to be defeated by death, or the gates of hades.
From the aticle I'm assuming that UCG thinks is is important what describes those who are part of "the Church that Jesus Built" and has a doctrine and that this would be a pretty important part of that doctrine.
So I'm asking for the UCG's (and presumably its members) doctrine here.
bttt
That's a big request. UCG isn't a monolithic organization. It's a group of people who believe in certain basic beliefs. Within those beliefs there are variations and shadows.
I would recommend starting at the www.ucg.org perhaps starting at fundamental beliefs.
A general belief, evident from reading the booklet that this article introduces, is that there is a LOT of false religion in the world including within Christianity itself. This should be evident considering especially the corruption of many "main stream" protestant denominations.
However within those organizations it's always considered that there are members of the church of God or at least potential members of the church of God.
I hope that helps/answers your question...
Thanks Doug.
From your link, the UCG does not teach trinitarian doctrine, but something different concerning God the Father, Christ and the Holy Spirit.
As for importance, I can only apply what it says about all its fundamental beliefs including this one:
“We consider the teaching of these beliefs to be critical to building on the right foundation of a proper reverence for God’s Word, especially as revealed in Jesus Christ.”
I would have to assume that those not teaching this belief would lack the right foundation, etc. and therefore be quite unlikely to be among the “Church Jesus Built” per the UCG.
This would exclude pretty much all protestant Christians such as Lutherans, Methodists, Baptists, Presbyterians, etc. and of course Catholics.
Let me know if you think I’m in error here. thanks again...
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