Posted on 01/06/2013 3:56:49 PM PST by NYer
The original premise of my question was “does the Holy Spirit leave the believer” when the RCC says they have to go to the priest for forgiveness”? I had already shown you that the Holy Spirit indwells all believers so we don’t need to go to a “priest”. Of course the Holy Spirit forgives sins through the shed blood of Christ. So given that we true believers have access to the Father without the need of what the RCC refers to as priests.
Hebrews 9:11-15 11 But when Christ appeared as a high priest of the good things that have come, then through the greater and more perfect tent (not made with hands, that is, not of this creation) 12 he entered once for all into the holy places, not by means of the blood of goats and calves but by means of his own blood, thus securing an eternal redemption. 13 For if the blood of goats and bulls, and the sprinkling of defiled persons with the ashes of a heifer, sanctify for the purification of the flesh, 14 how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without blemish to God, purify our conscience from dead works to serve the living God. 15 Therefore he is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, since a death has occurred that redeems them from the transgressions committed under the first covenant.
More accurately, it is Christ acting through the priest that mediates our forgiveness with the God the Father.
Did. Twice. Only to a Catholic could that change things. The rest of us are not encumbered with RCC indoctrination and have been freed by the Holy Spirit from that deception.
Fixed it.
Christ is perfectly capable of forgiving sins all on His own. He doesn't need man's *help* to do it.
And if someone needs to hear a priest tell him that his sins have been forgiven, that person doesn't trust God or have faith in Him and His promises.
Now on that we can agree! Catholics exhibit that tendency frequently.
Both of those two beautiful verses are completely compatible with the Catholic ministerial priesthood. If you do not think so, you are in error.
Peace be with you.
CB:Now on that we can agree! Catholics exhibit that tendency frequently.
Yeah, like when Scripture says that Joseph did not know Mary until AFTER she gave birth, Catholics, who have been indoctrinated into believing the perpetual virginity of Mary, can't wrap their minds around the fact that Joseph had sex with her after Jesus' birth, like the Bible says.
Just because it's not worded as Catholics would like, they claim it doesn't mean what it says.
Course, they'd probably STILL argue with it if Matthew came right out and said, *And after Mary had Jesus, Joseph had sex with her and they had other children together.*
No one said anything about need. Jesus' desire is enough.
"Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, so I send you.” When he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.” - John 20:21-23
But the fact remains that Joseph did not and the linguist constructs of the time do not even suggest it. You are free to surmise whatever you like about the Holy Family, just don't expect Catholics to take you seriously, only to pity and pray for you in your error.
Peace be with you
Once a person is saved, their sins are forgiven and there is no need for a priesthood.
Hebrews 10:12-18 But when Christ had offered for all time a single sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God, 13 waiting from that time until his enemies should be made a footstool for his feet. 14 For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified.
15 And the Holy Spirit also bears witness to us; for after saying,
16 “This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my laws on their hearts, and write them on their minds,”
17 then he adds,
“I will remember their sins and their lawless deeds no more.”
18 Where there is forgiveness of these, there is no longer any offering for sin.
Well then, by Catholic reasoning, since I also have the Holy Spirit in me, then *I* can forgive or retain sins.
I honestly don’t expect that any Catholics will agree until they get saved.
Nope, not now, not never! You haven't been ordained by the laying on of the hands and do not have the right plumbing for that to ever happen.
Peace be with you
WHAT? Narrowing anything when speaking of The Spirit of God is blasphemy.
What part of Rome man made teachings ignore the fact - in actions - that JESUS died for the sin for ALL? We either accept Jesus as SAVIOR or we don't. That's the free will thingie you appear hung up on for me/others - you still unnamed; yet, had no problem accusing.
When a sinner accepts Jesus as SAVIOR, the born again Christian now has a PERSONAL relationship with The Almighty Father!
MAN cannot apply for that position - even though Rome has it's shingle out for that position.
Narrow your discussion to man vs man. Never 'try' to narrow God for any reason with me, especially for the purpose of uplifting man.
The Father, Son and Holy Spirit work in unison as they are ONE. There is ONLY ONE GOD even though Rome 'claims' it can do things ONLY God can do. Deception knows no bounds.
Now that’s funny.....
Nevertheless, I don’t see any of those conditions laid on the church by Jesus Himself in that passage.
Keep reading.
"It's not a matter of perception." When you perceive them to differ...Uhhh, she just said it's not a matter of perception.
Some people struggle with simple English when it does not say what they want.If you are having a problem with English, I suppose we could post in Latin.
You have established that in the RF Latin doesn't have to be translated so it will be up to you to do so.
Quid putas?
Actually, Jesus tells why people are wrong. It is disagreeing with Scripture that causes someone to be wrong.
I understand Scripture because I have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.
Matthew 22:29 But Jesus answered them, “You are wrong, because you know neither the Scriptures nor the power of God.
Mark 12:24 Jesus said to them, “Is this not the reason you are wrong, because you know neither the Scriptures nor the power of God?
And Scripture is written plenty clear enough. It's not all that hard to understand unless someone is convinced that they can't and they've had it *interpreted* for them by others.
It's always dangerous to listen to men who set themselves up as authority and claim to be speaking for God.
Deadly for eternity actually.
Paul said to even check what he taught with scripture but the RCC says check with them before reading scripture.
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