Posted on 11/28/2012 6:00:38 PM PST by Colofornian
Well, if we’re accused of hating Mormonism, and we all pretty much cop to that plea, then what’s the issue? The mods say there is nothing wrong with hating Mormonism, JimRob’s said there is nothing wrong with hating Mormonism, and God, in the non-specific sense of course, has said there is nothing wrong with hating Mormonism. What is your objection?
If Islam is your religion of choice to discuss, start a thread. Otherwise, others have every right to talk about religious issues that concern THEM and open threads discussing them. If you don't care about the subject, don't read the thread and don't feel like you have to come on a thread to dictate to everyone what you feel they SHOULD be talking about instead.
P.S. I'll ping you to the next thread that comes up where Islam is discussed. We can then see where you stand on it.
Good luck with that one too.
(Yeah, we know...it's been past your bedtime for hours now! Do you need a drink of water? Retucked into bed?)
Well, one distinction here is that I try not to judge the internal motivations of others...The Bible talks about how only God sees the inward person, whereas man looks @ the outer nature...(see 1 Samuel 16:7)
I recall a counselor-author citing that in a book; and I've tried to honor that ever since...that if I think I may know somebody's motivation...I'll at least ask vs. mind-reading or assuming
In contrast, apparently you are able to somehow mind-read and judge posters' internal motivations...e'en tho one of the few clear posting rules on FR is NOT to engage in mind-reading.
Here, above you clearly state: "I don't start the same religious-oriented threads over and over to make sure everyone hears me..." as if you somehow know that THE internal goal here is only an exercise in using a bullhorn. That's called inwardly judging posters' motivations.
Personally, I don’t think what I said is anything near hate, compared to what you keep saying.
And you know what, you & other accusers of posters' supposed "hate-mongering" never seem to bother with the details...you ne'er point out exactly which words are "hateful"...and why you think they are.
Instead, you just pull out the ole liberal tactic of labeling and let it be at that. So, we, too, say: We don't think what we've said is anything near hate...
I mean, after all: How much do you have to hate someone to see them heading toward an eternal fiery cliff and not issue a single word of warning?
Or do you openly call Jesus a liar when He talked about a hell that's eternal?
Well, of course, you're likely right about some posters...but there's no way we can know who's who unless we come out and ask them point-blank...and unless they give us a straight answer.
But here's the thing: I don't believe FR should be either about "drive-by postings" or...being here to simply "dump" my "truckload" of "truth" on the public-at-large.
Ultimately, all of our communications involve acquaintance-relationships...and a few that delve deeper.
If we don't address people where they are at...some of whom are speaking from their layers of multi-cultural sensitivity lessons they absorbed in public high school and college...then we wind up treating people impersonally or as if their comments can't be sized up and responded to at all.
I can't tell the diff 'tween the true motivated hijackers, and those with genuine off-base knee-jerk responses. I don't try to assume I know each poster's internal motivations.
I do know that for every non-Mormon who accuses us of being anti-Mormon, they represent an Lds lurker how there who's been carefully indoctrinated to think that we are anti-Mormons.
Some just can't understand the distinction 'tween anti-Mormon (vs. the person) and anti-MormonISM (vs. the system). I occasionally try to explain that conservatives can be against homosexuality without being "anti-gay" -- against the person.
Sometimes, that helps...'cause most conservatives already make such distinctions in their minds on that matter. But for some reason, they don't allow the same parallel when it comes to exposing theological falsehoods. 'Tis "OK" to them when exposing cultural and lifestyle deceptions like homosexuality; but they haven't learned to apply their own worldviews consistently.
And Stu...others...please note that Boogieman is specific here...discussing the "ISM"...and not the people
What people ignore are Bible verses like the following:
* "Love rejoices in the truth" (1 Cor. 13:6...the love chapter)
Truth and love are married -- not divorced -- as some might have it.
Look what the Psalmist has to say in three verses in Psalm 119:
* "I hate and detest falsehood but I love your law." (Psalm 119:163)
* "I gain understanding from your precepts; therefore I hate every wrong path." (Psalm 119:104)
* "and because I consider all your precepts right, I hate every wrong path" (Psalm 119:128)
And Proverbs adds:
* "The righteous hate what is false..." (Proverbs 13:5)
You see, some people are so "open-choiced" -- open-ended on relativistic choices -- they can't bring themselves to oppose almost any "wrong path" false worldviews.
But the Bible doesn't stop there re: opposing false systems of worship. John the apostle had a vision of Jesus speaking to seven specific churches...What did Jesus tell John re: the church at Ephesus?
"But you have this in your favor: You hate the practices of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate." (Revelation 2:6)
Wow! Pretty strong. Jesus didn't "hate" the Nicolaitans...He died for them! He came for them! But guess what? He "hates" their false worship practices!
And John made it quite clear that Jesus was addressing him on all this:
16 In his right hand he held seven stars, and coming out of his mouth was a sharp, double-edged sword. His face was like the sun shining in all its brilliance. 17 When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: “Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last. 18 I am the Living One; I was dead, and now look, I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades. 19 “Write, therefore, what you have seen...“To the angel of the church in Ephesus write: (Revelation 1:17-->1:19, 2:1)
Why do we need to oppose the lingering lies of Mormon leaders? Because, as Proverbs says: "A lying tongue hates those it hurts..." (Proverbs 26:28)
You see, Stu...the "hate" is on the other side...those who tell lies about God, Jesus, worldviews, etc.
We are willing to absorb the hate...the prophet Amos foretold it would be that way when you openly speak truth: "There are those who hate the one who upholds justice in court and detest the one who tells the truth." (Amos 5:10)
The apostle Paul advised: "Love must be sincere. Hate what is evil; cling to what is good." (Romans 12:9)
And Jesus Himself "said to them, 'You are the ones who justify yourselves in the eyes of others, but God knows your hearts. What people value highly is detestable in God’s sight. (Luke 16:15)
No, God doesn't simply "go along" with everything earthlings value. No, Jesus didn't go along with not hating the practices of the Nicolaitans.
Some people need to simply cause a duststorm by opening their Bibles to make room for some new worldviews.
Weird Al did a remake of a song...entitling it: "It's all about the Pentium." For some posters, it's all about the Sentiment. [I think Weird Al could do another remake of that song...with new lyrics about how emotions rule the day for so many]
You sound like a "rookie" when it comes to death and dismemberment.
You don't have to go to Iran to see it. It's right here in our streets and homes.
It's in most Planned Parenthood "clinics."
I've seen an aborted baby, up close & personal. Have you?
I've seen a miscarried baby, up close & personal...enough to discern the gender. Have you?
And in contrast to the occasional terror acts committed by Muslim terrorists, those abortionists operating (perhaps) in your neighborhood or city limits or state are chopping up body parts almost daily...no bag limit...to the tune of MILLIONS every year!
If opposing physical death is one of your provocative soft spots, then show us ALL the pro-life/abortion threads you've started and commented upon?
If you can't, then please tell us why these mass-murdering abortionists get free passes from you and the Muslims attract your feelings of detestability...even the ones not out there murdering others?
*78% of evangelicals voted for Mitt Romney according to Ralph Reed and Fox news.
You’re right. What was I thinking?
Leave the problems to the non-delusional adults.
You go do whatever it is you think you’re doing.
Nowhere in responding; do I ascribe ‘hate’. Nor is their criticism of posters. (And am not at all sure; where ‘homosexuality’ enters in to the discussion.) That said. . .
why now; the personal assaults against another’s religion? A religion that has not impacted by any negative means; your life; future or fortune. (You might consider that if there is a ‘hate’ at work; it is contained in the pen of the writer of this ‘education’ on Mormonism; and as well, though who appreciate it as a warning 'primer'.
If you want be your own 'service to your fellow citizens'; all would be far better served; if you had an authentic 'threat' as your motivator. By that; would take your 'commitment' to warning your friends as to where the legitimized evil of Jihad; Sharia, sleeps/creeps and leaps. And yes; the Marxist inspired 'Leftism'; now at our saturation level; should as well; keep you awake at night; always an 'evil'; but more obviously; since it is so enables, the aforementioned.
Meantime; America; by vote – hook or crook - reaffirmed; further empowered; a self-declared enemy of our Country. A man; by necessity; so inauthentic; that even his autobiography is admitted as a fictional blend. A man; who unlike Mitt Romney – is in fact; along with his like-minded, Marxist/fascist/communist/Leninist, aides/servers/helpers, and wife - dedicated to; and engaged in; a total frontal, warring assault on America.
AGAIN; get over the 'Mormon next door'!
There is NO Mormon Jihad. They do not buy suicide vests to kill 'infidels' - those who 'disagree' with them.
(So PLEASE; so not throw ignorance with words like 'bigotry' when it comes to Islamism. We; including, Mormons; yet(!); leave the noses on our wives and daughters; should they 'disappoint'. (Offending women; daughters included; are not by our mores; killed; maimed; stoned; hanged; or beheaded; with 'blessings from above'.
There is no bigotry here; only morally rational judgment; when comparing what are unenlightened; determinedly ignorant, heinous and degrading precepts for 'acceptable' behaviors against those fostered/ embraced by 'Western Civilization' and spread by Christianity. Only ignorance would exclude Mormon's; or give them parity per the bias you make reference to.)
Am not bigoted; but if the 'Muslim next door; is wearing a burqua; and/or has a 'jihad' sticker on his car. . .you betcha; I would not be too happy. Nor, should you be. Why not save your judgment for 'where really needed'?)
Anyway. . .can only see a pathetic ignorance at work here; or a willful ignorance (either of which invites fear/hate) that would blind one to the truth of one man; versus the lie of another. Obama is as ‘dishonest’ about his beliefs; as Mitt Romney; is totally honest about his. You cannot get authentic leadership – ‘character’ – from a man who has none. (We know that, right?)
Nonetheless; we have in charge of our Country; and our Military; a man who it can be guaranteed; has never known a patriotism or an altruism; for the Country he ‘ostensibly’ leads; albeit; in his words; “from behind”. Yet; he is returning in 'victory' to finish what he started.
What we have in Obama as President; is a ‘moral travesty’ walking; and per Election; a moral travesty voting. . .
If there was fear of Mitt; there should be fear and horror of what lies ahead . Never has America’s promise been so compromised; and so blindly; willingly sacrificed, by so many.
I don’t like hate. It’s non productive, mean and negative.
I don’t like hate. It’s non productive, mean and negative.
There are no details to point out, that’s why. The hate is in the intent that is conveyed, not the words. Asking for details and specific threads is just foolish and we all know it.
There are no details to point out, that’s why. The hate is in the intent that is conveyed, not the words. Asking for details and specific threads is just foolish and we all know it.
Please note that I only used the ism word myself. Hate is hate, doesn’t matter if someone says it’s ok or not.
Please note that I only used the ism word myself. Hate is hate, doesn’t matter if someone says it’s ok or not.
I’ve had plenty to say about Islam, and about anti Mormonism. The anti Mormons have quite a fun little game going. In many people’s eyes, they are embarrassing FR and have driven tons of people away. Yet they cannot be criticized.
My main argument, and it is a religious argument, is that their criticism of Mormonism could be applied to Catholocism, Judaism, etc. Yet they run like the devil when those comparisons are brought up. Indeed they try to convince Catholics, etc. To be against Mormonism.
However, it is clear the anti Mormon arguments must ultimately go against Catholics, Jews as well.
Elsie posted a long list of supposedly over restrictive rules for Mormon missionaries. As I pointed out, Orthodox Jews, one of the best allies of conservatives, have tons of restrictive rules which apply their whole lives, not just as missionaries. For that matter, we have orders of monks with vows of silence. Priests with celibacy. Many religions exclude female rabbis, priests, etc.
The attacks on Mormonism are a troubling feature here, nor am I the only one to note it each time one of these posts appears. FR is NOT known for attacks on any other religion except Islam.
Whether the anti Mormonism-ers recognize it or not, those who post in opposition are doing FR a favor, by demonstrating to readers that not everyone here agrees with them. If some think it would be best for FR to be seen as 100% anti-Mormonism (God forbid I should say anti Mormon) that is a sad commentary indeed.
I may be a new poster, but I am an old lurker here, and I never viewed FR as anti any religion, possible exception being Islam.
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