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Pope says uniting Christianity requires conversion
cna ^ | January 18, 2012 | David Kerr

Posted on 01/18/2012 3:19:15 PM PST by NYer

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To: CynicalBear

Well, again, that’s where you are wrong.

We don’t know and the Church does not officially teach on where or when or who may have witnessed Mary’s death.

There is a story regarding it, which the Church has not declared as absolute truth.

****The assumption of Mary also contradicts the scripture of the first and second resurrection accounts.****

No, it does not, for when Jesus was questioned about John, what did He say?

22 Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? follow thou me.

.23 Then went this saying abroad among the brethren, that that disciple should not die: yet Jesus said not unto him, He shall not die; but, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee?

If Jesus wills that His mother be with Him in heaven, what is that to thee?


861 posted on 01/23/2012 8:25:53 PM PST by Jvette
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To: Jvette; CynicalBear
So, when one asks why if the Jesus said that those who ate the bread would never be hungry, that is a stupid question, because Jesus did not mean that the body would not feel hunger, rather that the soul would not.

Cynical bear's observation was 100% spot on. Literal one verse, allegorical/spiritual the next, all depending on which doctrine Catholics are trying to support. It's inconsistent, and disingenuous, and intellectually dishonest.

The whole passage or discourse should be interpreted in the same manner. If it can't be then it needs to be interpreted differently. Since the discourse in John 6 makes no sense, cannot be interpreted literally for the whole thing, then it must be interpreted differently, which does make sense and make it internally consistent with the rest of Scripture.

So when Jesus says you have to eat His flesh and blood to have life in you and that when you eat you will never die or never hunger or thirst again, it's more than hypocritical to take the eating flesh and blood literally but not the living forever and never being hungry or thirsty.

862 posted on 01/23/2012 8:27:33 PM PST by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: metmom

Thanks, MM, and you look just darling in your umpire outfit.

:)


863 posted on 01/23/2012 8:29:38 PM PST by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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To: presently no screen name

thus sayeth the prophet presently no screen name.

So it is written so shall it be.


864 posted on 01/23/2012 8:30:34 PM PST by BenKenobi (Vindicated! Santorum wins IOWA!)
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To: metmom

Is it allowed under the general rules of FR engagement that an umpire make a friendly wager?


865 posted on 01/23/2012 8:35:17 PM PST by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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To: Jvette
Yes, apparently it is vain repetition to meditate on the life of Jesus in the Gospels.

It's vain to make something that isn't - to something you want it to be for an agenda. Here, Jesus says it better....

Mark 7:6 He replied, "Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you hypocrites; as It Is Written: "'These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me.

866 posted on 01/23/2012 8:35:46 PM PST by presently no screen name
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To: Jvette
>>There is a story regarding it, which the Church has not declared as absolute truth.<<

So the whole thing is made up of myth. Good grief.

>>If Jesus wills that His mother be with Him in heaven, what is that to thee?<<

Because it contradicts scripture.

Revelation 20:6 Blessed and holy are those who have part in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.

Mary was not the first resurrection.

867 posted on 01/23/2012 8:35:46 PM PST by CynicalBear
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To: smvoice

So, if the Bible clearly says that two people were taken up to heaven, it does not contradict Scripture to believe that God also took up Mary.

Catholics add nothing to God’s Word, which is Jesus.

It is protestants who limit God’s Word to what they can or can’t believe He will or can do.


868 posted on 01/23/2012 8:37:12 PM PST by Jvette
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To: D-fendr; CynicalBear

Then we’ll just rightly conclude that the assertions are baseless.

No evidence to support them = baseless accusations or assertions.


869 posted on 01/23/2012 8:38:13 PM PST by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: metmom

Care to wager on that?


870 posted on 01/23/2012 8:40:32 PM PST by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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To: CynicalBear

****Mary was not the first resurrection.****

That’s true, Jesus raised up Lazarus and Jairus’ daughter.


871 posted on 01/23/2012 8:41:34 PM PST by Jvette
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To: metmom; D-fendr
>>No evidence to support them = baseless accusations or assertions.<<

Empty rhetoric and accusation is often what we get.

872 posted on 01/23/2012 8:44:19 PM PST by CynicalBear
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To: metmom

Actually, only a carnal people would think such and that is what Augustine says.

One must first believe and then know.

So, those who believed Jesus is the Son of God, then knew that what He said is true, whether they could understand it or not.

If one does not understand the union of the carnal and the spiritual, it is because one does not believe that Jesus could give us His flesh to eat and His blood to drink.


873 posted on 01/23/2012 8:45:35 PM PST by Jvette
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To: CynicalBear; metmom

I recall twice “refreshing” your memory.

Care to wager I can do it again?

You claimed you can tell who is saved and not, going to Heaven or hell.

What’s the stakes?

I’ll even let you lay off some of your bet on metmom...


874 posted on 01/23/2012 8:47:16 PM PST by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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To: Jvette; All

Well, it’s been interesting.

Good night and God bless.


875 posted on 01/23/2012 8:47:16 PM PST by Jvette
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To: Jvette
>>That’s true, Jesus raised up Lazarus and Jairus’ daughter.<<

They were also seen alive and died later. I do so hope you understand the difference of the resurrection to eternal life and being raised from the dead like Jesus did on multiple occasions.

876 posted on 01/23/2012 8:47:45 PM PST by CynicalBear
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To: Jvette

G’night, Jvette, thanks for your posts.

God bless you and yours...


877 posted on 01/23/2012 8:49:00 PM PST by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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To: D-fendr; metmom
>>What’s the stakes?<<

Your credibility.

878 posted on 01/23/2012 8:49:42 PM PST by CynicalBear
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To: CynicalBear; metmom

Yeah, your’s is already lost. :)

I’m tired of doing this, you say something, then deny it. It takes time and effort to go back and grab the thread and quotes.

If you’re not sure, back out. If you are sure you didn’t claim to be able to tell who is saved and who isn’t, then it just costs you the time to make a wager, while I have to do the work.

How about; A bold “mea culpa, mea maxima culpa” and one week off the threads?

Same wager for you metmom.


879 posted on 01/23/2012 8:54:06 PM PST by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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To: CynicalBear; metmom
Thanks for those ECF quotes. It seems way back then they even understood what some here refuse to - and that SHOULD be obvious even to them - the "elements (bread and wine) DO NOT CHANGE physically, so it HAS to be a spiritual representation. Jesus said to do this in remembrance of him, NOT do this to get a dose of grace for the week. What these people just don't seem to grasp is that we are saved because God imputes to us the righteousness of Christ. HIS righteousness is credited to our account when we receive him through faith. Eating his flesh and drinking his blood is a spiritual action accomplished by faith when we receive him as Savior.

I'm afraid the childish babblers are those who prefer to pretend they please God by their own merits and to present to him their "home made" mud pies of their works of righteousness when only the perfection of Christ, himself, can open the door to salvation and eternal life.

880 posted on 01/23/2012 8:58:01 PM PST by boatbums (Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us. Titus 3:5)
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