[RnMomof7]

The Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith said it was issuing the new document on ecumenism because some contemporary theological interpretations of Vatican II's ecumenical intent had been "erroneous or ambiguous" and had prompted confusion and doubt.

The new document -- formulated as five questions and answers -- restates key sections of a 2000 text the pope wrote when he was prefect of the congregation, "Dominus Iesus," which riled Protestant, Lutheran and other Christian denominations because it said they were not true churches but merely ecclesial communities and therefore did not have the "means of salvation."

Issued by the dept. of the inquisition

[AdamBomb]

Good. Pope is right

[narses]

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[metmom]

For the second time in a week, Pope Benedict XVI has corrected what he says are erroneous interpretations of the Second Vatican Council, reasserting the primacy of the Roman Catholic Church and saying other Christian communities were either defective or not true churches.

The feeling is mutual.

So I should care about the pope's opinion for what reason again?

[rzman21]

The Catholic definition of Church means having a valid priesthood and valid sacraments.

That means only the Orthodox are true Churches based on the definition of St. Ignatius of Antioch from 105 A.D.

Chapter 8. Let nothing be done without the bishop

See that you all follow the bishop, even as Jesus Christ does the Father, and the presbytery as you would the apostles; and reverence the deacons, as being the institution of God. Let no man do anything connected with the Church without the bishop. Let that be deemed a proper Eucharist, which is [administered] either by the bishop, or by one to whom he has entrusted it. Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude [of the people] also be; even as, wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church. It is not lawful without the bishop either to baptize or to celebrate a love-feast; but whatsoever he shall approve of, that is also pleasing to God, so that everything that is done may be secure and valid.
http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0109.htm

Ecumenism with Protestants should be limited to the social sphere like charity and fighting militant atheism, that’s it.

The Catholic Church should not alter or water down its teaching to placate Protestants.

[Delta 21]

[Tigen]

Thought this looked familiar

THIS ARTICAL WAS POSTED ON FOX NEWS Tuesday, July 10, 2007

[count-your-change]

Maybe he misses the good old days when heretics and their Bibles could be put to fire or sword instead of his issuing vague documents.

[LisaFab]

Why are you posting articles from 2007?

[Ransomed]

If one doesn’t agree with Catholics and Orthodox on Apostolic Succession, why would this be is shocking? And why would anyone care how Catholic and Orthodox define the Church if they don’t agree with Apostolic Succession?

From the 2007 article you posted and quoted:

“...because it said they were not true churches but merely ecclesial communities and therefore did not have the “means of salvation.”

From what was released: “It follows that these separated churches and Communities, though we believe they suffer from defects, are deprived neither of significance nor importance in the mystery of salvation. In fact the Spirit of Christ has not refrained from using them as instruments of salvation, whose value derives from that fullness of grace and of truth which has been entrusted to the Catholic Church”[12].

Fox news must not have even bothered to read what was released. The Ap story didn’t even have a link to the document!! I mean it was right there in the text.

Here’s a link in case anyone wants to read it, it isn’t very long:

http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20070629_responsa-quaestiones_en.html

Freegards

[johngrace]

AS THE WORLD TURNS on the religion forum!

It Is..........

THE USUAL SUSPECTS on both sides!

For What Else?..............

SPIRITUAL LOVE! WE ARE THE WORLD!

[Texas Fossil]

Is this really how we are going to start off the New Year?

Pointless beyond point.

—

My bible (KJV) does not mention Pope or Cardinal. It does mention Bishops and deacons.

I Timothy 3:2

“A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach; 3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous; 4 One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity; 5 (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?) 6 Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil. 7 Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil. “

“Likewise must the deacons be grave, not doubletongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre; 9 Holding the mystery of the faith in a pure conscience. 10 And let these also first be proved; then let them use the office of a deacon, being found blameless. 11 Even so must their wives be grave, not slanderers, sober, faithful in all things. 12 Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well. 13 For they that have used the office of a deacon well purchase to themselves a good degree, and great boldness in the faith which is in Christ Jesus.”

—

So church leaders are to have one wife. Curious statement.

[right way right]

Seriously? Its from 2007.
He backed off from the statement later.

I don’t see the point of all the rotton fruit fights lately!

[lastchance]

Very poorly written article,especially in its reference to Dominus Iesus. The article leaves out quite a bit of what is written on Protestant sects giving a very false impression. They neglected to include this because it did not serve their stir up everybody agenda.

“Therefore, these separated Churches and communities as such, though we believe they suffer from defects, have by no means been deprived of significance and importance in the mystery of salvation. For the spirit of Christ has not refrained from using them as means of salvation which derive their efficacy from the very fullness of grace and truth entrusted to the Catholic Church”.66

The defects written of are not of personal,ethical or moral nature but pertain to the Ecclesiology of the sects in that they do not Apostolic Succession.

[Mrs. Don-o]

Rnmomof7, just wanted to thank you for posting this Catholic article. I haven't read through the thread (283+ at this point) but I think I can anticipate that the use of the word "church" is a problem. The Catholic Church uses the word in several related, but distinguishable senses, which often causes perplexity.

1. Ordinarily, "local church" means diocese, e.g. the Diocese of Knoxville is called in canon law a "local church." It is headed by Rev. Richad Stika, the Bishop of Knoxville.

2. "Churches in union with us" means Catholic churches of other-than-Latin rite, such as Chaldeans, Maronites, Melkites, Ruthenian, etc. which have their wn Bishops.

In either of those two senses it always means a Church with a Catholic Bishop. That's how we use the word.

If "other Christian denominations are not considered "Churches," it means they do not have Catholic bishops.

It does not mean that the members of these denominations are not Christians, or that they do not have the spiritual riches of Scriptures, prayer, valid Baptism, grace, the love of God, faith in Our Lord Jesus Christ, the fellowship of the Holy Spirit, etc. etc. It certainly does not mean they are not "saved."

This ought not to cause ill-will. It's just a way Catholic-terminology distinguishes between groups-with-bishops and groups-without-bishops in our statements and documents.

I hope this conveys some measure of clarity and good will.

[allmendream]

Matt 18:20 “For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.”

[bmwcyle]

Sorry kid the Pope can stick it.

[Mrs. Don-o]

The AP writer evidently didn't read the actual 2007 document, which states "these separated churches and Communities ...are deprived neither of significance nor importance in the mystery of salvation. In fact the Spirit of Christ has not refrained from using them as instruments of salvation."

The only way you could make it into the anti-Protestant document the AP claims it is, is by deleting the "neither," "nor," and "not," thus making it the exact opposite of what the statement actually said.

It would be a welcome gesture, Rnmomof7, if you could relay this useful information to brothers and sisters who have been needlessly offended.

Thank you.