Vanity: Beware of False Prophets, False Prophecy

Excerpts from http://bible.cc/matthew/7-15.htm ^

[Scoutmaster]

Because they [Mormons] are simply Christians.

That also brings up an interesting question, bigheadfred? Who, then, are 'simply Mormons'?

You may be aware that there was a major split up of Joseph Smith, Jr.'s church after his death, because it was unclear who was supposed to succeed him as prophet (there were spin-offs before that too, but more on that later). The Brighamite branch of the church that is headquartered today in Salt Lake City, Utah is officially the Corporation of the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. After fighting against being called "Mormons" for years, and despite wanting to make the definition of "Christianity" to broad, they are darned parsimonious when it comes to the term "Mormons." They not only have a Style Guide for newspapers on the use of the words "Mormon" and "Mormonism," but they've successfully gotten the AP to agree not to use "Mormon" when referring to any religious group derived from Joseph Smith, Jr. (including that through his son), except the Corporation of the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints.

Now, for a 'let's all just get along and call ourselves Christians' group, you would think that at least one of these 'restored churches' through Joseph Smith, Jr. would be considered to be fellow Mormons by the LDS, but no:

Short Creek Community
Latter Day Church of Christ
Apostolic United Brethren
Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints
Church of the Firstborn of the Fulness [sic] of Times
Church of the Lamb of God
Church of the New Covenant in Christ
Confederate Nations of Israel
Righteous Branch of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
School of the Prophets
Centennial Park
Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and the Kingdom of God
True and Living Church of Jesus Christ of Saints of the Last Days
The Church of the Firstborn and the General Assembly of Heaven
Blackmore/Bountiful Community
Restoration Church of Jesus Christ
Order of Enoch
Aaronic Order
Zion's Order, Inc.
Perfected Church of Jesus Christ of Immaculate Latter-day Saints
Church of Jesus Christ (Bullaite)
Community of Christ
Church of Jesus Christ (Toneyite)
Independent RLDS / Restoration Branches
Church of Jesus Christ Restored 1830
Church of Christ (Lion of God Ministry/Clarkite)
Church of Jesus Christ (Zion's Branch)
Restoration Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints
Remnant Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints
Church of Christ (Temple Lot) (Hedrickite)
Church of Christ (Fettingite) (Hedrickite)
Church of Christ at Halley's Bluff (Hedrickite)
Church of Christ (Restored) (Hedrickite)
Church of Christ "With the Elijah Message" (Hedrickite)
Church of Christ (Hancock) (Hedrickite)
Church of Christ (Burtite) (Hendrickite)
Church of Israel (Hendrickite)
Church of Christ with the Elijah Message (The Assured Way of the Lord) (Hendrickite)
The Church of Jesus Christ (Bickertonite)
Church of Jesus Christ (Cutlerite)
True Church of Jesus Christ (Cutlerite)
Restored Church of Jesus Christ (Cutlerite)
Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (Strangite)
Holy Church of Jesus Christ (Strangite)
Church of Jesus Christ (Drewite) (Strangite)
True Church of Jesus Christ Restored (Strangite)
Pentecostal Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Whitmerite)

Or one of these defunct sects:

Pure Church of Christ (Clarkite)
Independent Church (Hotonite)
Church of Christ (Boothite)
Church of Christ (Parrishite)
Alston Church
Church of Christ (Chubbyite)
Church of Jesus Christ, the Bride, the Lamb’s Wife
Church of Christ (Pageite)
True Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints
The Church of Zion (Godbeite)
United Order Family of Christ
Church of the Potter Christ
Church of the Firstborn (Morrisite)
Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (Gibsonite)
Church of Jesus Christ of Saints of the Most High
Church of the Christian Brotherhood
Church of Jesus Christ of the Children of Zion (Rigdonite)
Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ (Bickertonite)
Primative Church of Jesus Christ (Bickertonite)
Church of Christ (Aaron Smith)
Church of the Messiah (Adamsite)
Church of Christ (Wrightite)
Church of Christ (Whitmerite)
Church of Christ (Brewsterite)
The Bride, the Lamb’s Wife
Congregation of Jehovah’s Presbytery of Zion
Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (Gladdenite)
Independent Latter Day Saints of Nigeria
Independent Latter Day Saints of Ghana
Apostolic Divine Church of Ghana

If the 'Mormons' don't consider any of these bellow believers in joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon to be Mormons, do they consider them to be fellow Christians? That may be an interesting question, bigheadfred. Just how big is the Mormon's "Christianity" tent?

On May 26, 1944, Joseph Smith, Jr., testified against dissenters at Nauvoo:

I have more to boast of than ever any man had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam. A large majority of the whole have stood by me. Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such a work as I. The followers of Jesus ran away from Him; but the Latter-day Saints never ran away from me yet.

That's an interesting quote from a prophet, particularly when you consider that some of those denominations above had already 'run away' from Smith and his church at the time he said this, primarily because he was taking other men's wives as his own, and fourteen year-old girls (which was not common during the era, despite what you may hear), and was lying about it.

But I digress. I wonder if these groups are 'simply Mormon,' or if the Mormons consider these fellow believers in the Book of Mormon "simply Christian," bigheadfred?

[reaganaut]

Did your father ever tell you about the conditions that were attached to your getting help from DI?

Nothing is free in Mormonism - NOTHING.

[reaganaut]

The fact there is a very large number of folks on FR that have the intellect and decrement to know and understand that the LDS is a bunch of hooey speaks well for the site.

- - - - - -
WORTH A REPOST!

[reaganaut]

Yeah. So are most LDS on here. You know, we wouldn’t fight nearly as much if they would just be honest and stop saying they are Christians...

[ejonesie22]

If honesty were a factor they wouldn’t be LDS.

Being honest with oneself is where it starts...

[reaganaut]

At least you admit you aren’t a Christian, that is better than most Mormons and their ilk. I’ll give you that.

It isn’t what I have made it to be, it is what CHRIST has made it to be. The Bible is clear and reliable, contrary to what you have been taught.

[reaganaut]

Sometimes, I just can’t. I think about those who didn’t walk away from me and kept hounding me until God opened my eyes. Perhaps having been there makes me tenacious to a fault.

[Scoutmaster]

there was only one gun

Again, from the Official LDS History of the Church, Vol.6, Ch.34, p.617:

In the meantime Joseph, Hyrum, and Elder Taylor had their coats off. Joseph sprang to his coat for his six-shooter, Hyrum for his single barrel, Taylor for Markham's large hickory cane, and Dr. Richards for Taylor's cane.

Joseph with a six-shooter and Hyrum with a single barrel. That's two guns. From the LDS History of the Church.

I'm sorry you find things complicated. History and the facts often are. There was an entire war going on within the United States. There was an assassination attempt on a governor. A man had called out his personal militia and had declared martial law against the law of the United States and the law of the state in which was living, He had declared his own theocracy. You're aware, I assume, that Smith had not only had himself declared General of the Nauvoo Legion, but in both 1843 and 1844 had himself ordained as "Prophet, Priest, and King over the Council [of Fifty] and the world"?

Things are pretty complicated when a guy is having himself declared king of the world, is riding around in a general's uniform on a white horse, and is declaring martial law after starting his own illegal anti-bank (and fleeing the state when it failed) and ordering a printing press destroyed for printing a newspaper saying that he was committing polygamy, which publicly denied repeatedly, although he had at least 44 wives when he was denying it, wouldn't you say?

So again, based on the LDS History of the church, I disagree. Two guns were smuggled into the Carthage Jail. And they were smuggled in by an LDS member.

[bigheadfred]

At least you admit you aren’t a Christian

Must have been the human sacrifice and cannibalism that drove me away.

[Scoutmaster]

Saundra? Way back on November 21, 2011, you excitedly let us know about MormonVoice as another of FAIR's ways to Ask a Mormon.

I asked then "What does Mormonism teach about Mormons becoming gods and having their own planets to populate with spirit children?"

I know you've been busy since November 21, 2011, but I took you up on your Ask a Mormon offer. You may have missed my request. I hoped you would answer since you initiated the thread and were so excited about non-LDS being able to Ask a Mormon. I know others want to answer, but I politely asked you and not some anti-Mormons.

What does Mormonism teach about Mormons becoming gods and having their own planets to populate with spirit children?

[MHGinTN]

;^) Placemarker ...

[reaganaut]

Ah but many of us former Mormons have repented and accepted Christ’s sacrifice on the Cross. Our past sins (including being Mormon) have be washed away and forgiven.

And that isn’t why they were banned. They were banned because they crossed the lines of the forum too often.

[reaganaut]

Still not included in the hymnal, neither are many many Christmas and advent songs that are in Christian hymnals.

As I have stated before, I know Jews, and atheists who have done Christmas albums. That doesn’t make them Christian either.

And for the record, I don’t know if these versions contain or omit the verse about the Cross - I can’t stand to listen to the MoTab choir long enough to find out. SHUDDER.

[reaganaut]

Resty, there were two guns.

Want sources for it?

[reaganaut]

No such thing as a blood atonement never happen

- - - - -
ROFL. Really Resty??? Read the sources, read your own churches teachings, your own prophets speeches, the diaries of your own membership from the time. Stop drinking the Kool-Aid and face reality - blood atonement was a doctrine and practiced.

Do you really want to be a goddess more than you want the truth?

[reaganaut]

You give it a rest and read the context of by their fruits. It is talking about false prophets, not believers and the fruits of your LDS prophets are rotten.

[reaganaut]

Blue Moose is LDS (Mormon). He doesn’t defend, just posts links.

[Scoutmaster]

Want sources for it?

For Pete's sake. I gave her the page number in the LDS History of the Church where it says two guns. I gave her the link to www.fairlds.org where it says two guns and it quotes the History of the Church. Those are LDS sources and they say two guns. One is the official, as in OFFICIAL 'official' History of the Church, as in "THE" church, her church, The Corporation of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. But I used the internet. Which is apparently a problem for her even though THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS HAS A WEBSITE.

What else are you going to give her that's going to make her happy?

I'd be rude and say 'dig up Joseph Smith and ask him' - but that would have been easy for years, because the Saints just stuck his body under an outbuilding and Hie Thee to Kolob Utah, Illinois, Michigan, Pennsylvania, Missouri, and back to the rest of the farm, just letting him sit there. They weren't particularly concerned about the prophet. Nor were they worried for their lives. Many of them just hung around. Which is what gave us the RLDS, now the Community of Christ. A dead Joseph wasn't worth much, so I don't know that he's going to convince her there were two guns.

[reaganaut]

Truth never takes a holiday. And for those of us who have been in the trenches against the LDS get used to the namecalling don’t let it get to you.

Have a Merry Christmas and rejoice in the birth of our Lord.

[reaganaut]

LOL. I posted that before I saw your response (which was excellent BTW).

The internet has led a lot of people out of Mormonism. When I was leaving, we still had to do research ‘by hand’ and track down the sources (good thing I had some well connected friends).