Posted on 11/23/2011 11:11:08 AM PST by marshmallow
Hypocrisy? Somehow the word rhymes with “Legion of Christ”, doesn’t it?
Nice Donatism. Maybe you could upgrade and become a Mormon.
Salvation is a personal belief in and confession that Jesus has paid the final and complete price for our salvation and freely forgives all our sins.
>>So you are saying that you works save yourself.
we are commanded to come out of the kingdom of darkness into the kingdom of Jesus Christ ( Colossians 1:13-14 )
so once one is “in Christ”, that is the Church, there is no where else to go.
if the last Pope does something that can be equated to the abomination of desolation standing in the holy place ( the holy place today is the Church ) such as denying Jesus Christ is the way, the truth and the life, that sin would be his, not the faithful remnant.
agreed.
I discovered the earliest legitimate example of my surname via the Templar Inquisition of 1185. Not a horrid chamber of tortures, not that one at least, more like taking inventory.
One more time: It’s not about the evil pedophile priests. We know their future. It’s about the innocence lost of those children. But MOST IMPORTANTLY, it is the fear those children have of their souls being forever lost because if they leave the RCC, they are taught there is no salvation outside that Church. The TRUTH is what has been stripped from them. And replaced with FEAR of never getting to heaven if they tell, leave, or refuse that pedophile priest, who has the power over them to retain or remit their sins.
The article shows the consequences of what the Sola Scriptura virus has done inside the Catholic Church in America over the past 40 years.
A lot of so-called Catholics have become Protestant in all but name.
At least the Protestants had the conviction to leave. The average poorly catechized Roman Catholic is either Protestant in orientation or they ignorantly follow pious fables that have no basis in Catholic doctrine.
Medjugorje,Sr. Faustina’s Diary, etc.
I addressed your error doctrinally in my reply.
As far as using using fear of hell or damnation or misusing one’s religious authority, that’s not unique to Catholic pedophiles.
this post is spot on!!
Interesting bit of history.
You must admit, though, that a lot of stuff is attributed to myth, legend, allegory or just wishful thinking. As to the "codification" of pious belief, I believe that was the very reason why God preserved his truths in Scripture and let's not forget, he was doing it way before the Apostolic age. Only what has been written down, universally held as truly God-breathed and respected by believers from all walks of life and verified in changed lives is good enough to be held as binding on the faithful. If people want to believe Mary was bodily assumed into heaven but nobody physically witnessed it and recorded it with affirmations of others also present, then I won't stand and say they can't. People believe in all kinds of things for all kinds of reasons. But when such things are declared as DOGMA with total obedience REQUIRED to remain in communion with THE church, then I think something more than legend should be expected.
if anyone is of Eurpean descent, there is almost a 100% chance that their ancestors at some point were Catholic.
some of still believe the faith of our fathers.
The Divine Liturgy is a mystical participation in the ONE sacrifice on Christ on Calvary.
I’d say you are being a bit rationalist in your approach here because Christ’s action is outside of space or time. Your reasoning is too linear.
The Council of Trent’s stance was affirmed by the Eastern Orthodox a century later at the Council of Jerusalem.
Decree 10
...The [simple] Priest, indeed, retains to himself the authority and grace of the Priesthood, which he has received; but the Bishop imparts it to others also. And the one having received the dignity of the Priesthood from the Bishop, can only perform Holy Baptism, and Prayer-oil, minister sacrificially the unbloody Sacrifice*, and impart to the people the All-holy Body and Blood of our Lord Jesus Christ, anoint the baptized with the Holy Myron [Chrism oil], crown the Faithful legally marrying, pray for the sick, and that all men may be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth, {cf. 1 Timothy 2:4} and especially for the remission and forgiveness of the sins of the Faithful, living and dead. And if he be eminent for experience and virtue, receiving his authority from the Bishop, he directs those Faithful that come unto him, and guides them into the way of possessing the heavenly kingdom, and is appointed a preacher of the sacred Gospel.
Note: In Catholic and Eastern theology, the Eucharist is not just a symbol or memorial of Christ’s death, but is an actual participation in the sacrifice of Christ, a manifestation of that one sacrifice but without the shedding of blood, that is, “unbloody.” This is the doctrine of “Transubstantiation” in which the substance of bread and wine are truly changed in the Eucharist into the reality of the body and blood of Christ...
Decree 15
...And the Priesthood by the words, “This do ye for My Memorial;” {Luke 22:19} and by the words, “Whatever you bind and loose upon the earth shall be bound and loosed in the heavens.” {Matthew 18:18}
And the unbloody Sacrifice by the words, “Take, eat; This is My Body;” {Matthew 26:26; Mark 14:22; and cf. Luke 22:19; 1 Corinthians 2:24} and, “Drink all of It; This is My Blood of the New Testament;” {Matthew 26:27; and cf. Mark 14:24; Luke 22:20; 1 Corinthians 2:25} and by the words, “Unless you eat the Flesh of the Son of Man, you do not have life in yourselves.” {John 6:53}...
Decree 17
We believe the All-holy Mystery of the Sacred Eucharist, which we have enumerated above, fourth in order, to be that which our Lord delivered in the night in which He gave Himself up for the life of the world. For taking bread, and blessing, He gave to His Holy Disciples and Apostles, saying: “Take, eat; This is My Body.” {Matthew 26:26} And taking the chalice, and giving thanks, He said: “Drink you all of It; This is My Blood, which for you is being poured out, for the remission of sins.” {Matthew 26:28} In the celebration of this we believe the Lord Jesus Christ to be present. He is not present typically, nor figuratively, nor by superabundant grace, as in the other Mysteries, nor by a bare presence, as some of the Fathers have said concerning Baptism, or by impanation, so that the Divinity of the Word is united to the set forth bread of the Eucharist hypostatically, as the followers of Luther most ignorantly and wretchedly suppose. But [he is present] truly and really, so that after the consecration of the bread and of the wine, the bread is transmuted, transubstantiated, converted and transformed into the true Body Itself of the Lord, Which was born in Bethlehem of the ever-Virgin, was baptized in the Jordan, suffered, was buried, rose again, was received up, sits at the right hand of the God and Father, and is to come again in the clouds of Heaven; and the wine is converted and transubstantiated into the true Blood Itself of the Lord, Which as He hung upon the Cross, was poured out for the life of the world. {John 6:51}
Further [we believe] that after the consecration of the bread and of the wine, there no longer remains the substance of the bread and of the wine, but the Body Itself and the Blood of the Lord, under the species and form of bread and wine; that is to say, under the accidents of the bread.
Further, that the all-pure Body Itself, and Blood of the Lord is imparted, and enters into the mouths and stomachs of the communicants, whether pious or impious. Nevertheless, they convey to the pious and worthy remission of sins and life eternal; but to the impious and unworthy involve condemnation and eternal punishment.
Further, that the Body and Blood of the Lord are severed and divided by the hands and teeth, though in accident only, that is, in the accidents of the bread and of the wine, under which they are visible and tangible, we do acknowledge; but in themselves to remain entirely unsevered and undivided. Wherefore the Catholic Church also says: “Broken and distributed is He That is broken, yet not severed; Which is ever eaten, yet never consumed, but sanctifying those that partake,” that is worthily.
Further, that in every part, or the smallest division of the transmuted bread and wine there is not a part of the Body and Blood of the Lord — for to say so were blasphemous and wicked — but the entire whole Lord Christ substantially, that is, with His Soul and Divinity, or perfect God and perfect man. So that though there may be many celebrations in the world at one and the same hour, there are not many Christs, or Bodies of Christ, but it is one and the same Christ that is truly and really present; and His one Body and His Blood is in all the several Churches of the Faithful; and this not because the Body of the Lord that is in the Heavens descends upon the Altars; but because the bread of the Prothesis* set forth in all the several Churches, being changed and transubstantiated, becomes, and is, after consecration, one and the same with That in the Heavens. For it is one Body of the Lord in many places, and not many; and therefore this Mystery is the greatest, and is spoken of as wonderful, and comprehensible by faith only, and not by the sophistries of man’s wisdom; whose vain and foolish curiosity in divine things our pious and God-delivered religion rejects.
*Note: GK: prothesis, “setting forth,” in Orthodox churches the liturgical act of preparing the bread and wine for the Divine Liturgy or Eucharist.
Further, that the Body Itself of the Lord and the Blood That are in the Mystery of the Eucharist ought to be honored in the highest manner, and adored with latria [Gk: adoration or worship*]. For one is the adoration of the Holy Trinity, and of the Body and Blood of the Lord. Further, that it is a true and propitiatory Sacrifice offered for all Orthodox, living and dead; and for the benefit of all, as is set forth expressly in the prayers of the Mystery delivered to the Church by the Apostles, in accordance with the command they received of the Lord.
[Note: The Greek term latria refers to the highest form of adoration or worship and is directed only to God, as opposed to dulia, “veneration” of the saints, and hyperdulia, “highest veneration” of Mary.]
Further, that before Its use, immediately after the consecration, and after Its use, What is reserved in the Sacred Pixes* for the communion of those that are about to depart [i.e. the dying] is the true Body of the Lord, and not in the least different from it; so that before Its use after the consecration, in Its use, and after Its use, It is in all respects the true Body of the Lord.
[Note: Pixes: a container in which the consecrated bread for Communion is placed so that it can be taken to those who cannot leave home.]
Further, we believe that by the word “transubstantiation” the manner is not explained, by which the bread and wine are changed into the Body and Blood of the Lord, — for that is altogether incomprehensible and impossible, except by God Himself, and those who imagine to do so are involved in ignorance and impiety, — but that the bread and the wine are after the consecration, not typically, nor figuratively, nor by superabundant grace, nor by the communication or the presence of the Divinity alone of the Only-begotten, transmuted into the Body and Blood of the Lord; neither is any accident of the bread, or of the wine, by any conversion or alteration, changed into any accident of the Body and Blood of Christ, but truly, and really, and substantially, doth the bread become the true Body Itself of the Lord, and the wine the Blood Itself of the Lord, as is said above.
Further, that this Mystery of the Sacred Eucharist can be performed by none other, except only by an Orthodox Priest, who has received his priesthood from an Orthodox and Canonical Bishop, in accordance with the teaching of the Eastern Church. This is compendiously the doctrine, and true confession, and most ancient tradition of the Catholic Church concerning this Mystery; which must not be departed from in any way by such as would be Orthodox and who reject the novelties and profane vanities of heretics. But necessarily the tradition of the institution must be kept whole and uniimpaired. For those that transgress, the Catholic Church of Christ rejects and anathematises.
Decree 18
We believe that the souls of those that have fallen asleep are either at rest or in torment, according to what each has done; — for when they are separated from their bodies, they depart immediately either to joy, or to sorrow and lamentation; though confessedly neither their enjoyment nor condemnation are complete. For after the common resurrection, when the soul shall be united with the body, with which it had behaved itself well or ill, each shall receive the completion of either enjoyment or of condemnation.
And the souls of those involved in mortal sins, who have not departed in despair but while still living in the body, though without bringing forth any fruits of repentance, have repented — by pouring forth tears, by kneeling while watching in prayers, by afflicting themselves, by relieving the poor, and finally by showing forth by their works their love towards God and their neighbor, and which the Catholic Church has from the beginning rightly called satisfaction — [their souls] depart into Hades, and there endure the punishment due to the sins they have committed. But they are aware of their future release from there, and are delivered by the Supreme Goodness, through the prayers of the Priests, and the good works which the relatives of each do for their Departed; especially the unbloody Sacrifice benefiting the most; which each offers particularly for his relatives that have fallen asleep, and which the Catholic and Apostolic Church offers daily for all alike. Of course, it is understood that we do not know the time of their release. We know and believe that there is deliverance for such from their direful condition, and that before the common resurrection and judgment, but when we know not.
“as binding on the faithful”
under “sola scriptura”, nothing is binding on the faithful. for example baptismal regeneration certainly is taught by the Scriptures and is binding on the faithful.
except if YOU don’t read the Scriptures that way, then suddenly it’s not binding, because YOU become the final authority.
the Church that JESUS gave His authority to TEACH can be ignored, attacked, etc. as long as the person in the mirror says so.
Most of what we hear about the Inquisition was fabricated by Protestant propagandists in the Netherlands who were seeking independence from Spain.
I’d suggest you watch the following BBC program titled:
The Myth of the Spanish Inquisition.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMkjvCKTK3Q&feature=youtube
You forget that unlike the Catholic Church Protestant churches are not a cohesive organization. The name Protestant is loosely given to any church or group that is not part of the Catholic Church. No one Protestant church has authority or can govern the conduct or practices of any other Protestant church. There are of course some organized Protestant churches but assigning wrong doing in one church to all Protestants would show a lack of understanding of the relationship between Protestant organizations and independent churches.
In comparison with modern Evangelicalism, conservative Lutheranism is practically Catholic.
http://www.angelfire.com/ny4/djw/lutherantheology.html
As to the “codification” of pious belief, I believe that was the very reason why God preserved his truths in Scripture and let’s not forget, he was doing it way before the Apostolic age.
>> That’s a mystery. I fail to understand your scrupulosity. That’s the problem with the Western mind. It can’t tolerate ambiguity.
Maybe that’s why Eastern Europe has remained largely Christian while Western Europe has become apostate.
I'd heard scandalous rumors about them Templars being Catholic, but I just wasn't sure, lol.
Seriously though, it seems that there is a misconception afoot here. The Reformation was an attempt at righting the then-wrongs of the Catholic Church, almost entirely a European event. It did not and does not represent a wholesale rejection of all things taught by that church, just those things that do not find scriptural support and especially that which runs counter to it. It was an attempt to return to first principals, hence the obvious reverence with which certain early "church fathers" are held.
Shifting focus to England, Henry Tudor maintained he was Catholic until the day he died. The pendulum swung back and forth, with the "ins" persecuting the "outs" by turn as they came back into favor and then back out once again, for over a century. No one's hands could be said to be clean.
I've actually found it's more likely for the shoe to be on the other foot, as far as ignorance of church history in the British Isles, England in particular.
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