Reformation Day – and What Led Me To Back to Catholicism

The Catholic Thing ^ | 10/28/11 | Francis J. Beckwith

[metmom]

My point is that so many who prate the verse 'that every knee will bow' actually never do it.

You know this how? Personal interviews? You asked people? Observed them perhaps?

[metmom]

How many Protestants speak about prayer and never actually do it other than rambling stream of consciousness prattle at some public or semi public affair?

Hm, the word *rosary* comes to mind.

People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

[count-your-change]

“Must not be too ignorant if that's all the refutation you can muster. Look at the history of the papacy... power (and corruption) aplenty. The papacy has been more secular and sinful than apparently is accepted by the Roman Catholic Church. But, history records the truth... much to the chagrin the the Roman Catholic Church.”

Since Reformation Day is being recalled a very good history is John Foxe’s Book of Martyrs. If you are not familiar with it, do a quick Google search to get a brief overview of this memorable book and its author.

[metmom]

Galatians 3:1-14 1O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? It was before your eyes that Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified. 2Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law or by hearing with faith? 3Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh? 4 Did you suffer so many things in vain—if indeed it was in vain? 5Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law, or by hearing with faith— 6just as Abraham "believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness"?

7Know then that it is those of faith who are the sons of Abraham. 8And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, "In you shall all the nations be blessed." 9So then, those who are of faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith.

10For all who rely on works of the law are under a curse; for it is written, "Cursed be everyone who does not abide by all things written in the Book of the Law, and do them." 11Now it is evident that no one is justified before God by the law, for "The righteous shall live by faith." 12But the law is not of faith, rather "The one who does them shall live by them." 13Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us—for it is written, "Cursed is everyone who is hanged on a tree"— 14so that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we might receive the promised Spirit through faith.

[metmom]

Romans 8:1-4 There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. 2For the law of the Spirit of life has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death. 3For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh, 4in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 1

[CynicalBear]

Just obedience to the word of God.

1 Corinthians 6:11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

Hebrews 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

Hebrews 4:14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession. 15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. 16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace

[presently no screen name]

The naughty ones are put on some purgatory probation for a year

They get black coal to match their sins/soul. So be good little kiddies, St.Nick/santa is watching. Catholicism - control through intimidation - you aren't good enough.

[MarkBsnr]

>>Do you think that Jesus was kidding when He told us that we could only be His friends if we followed His commandments? <<

When I stand before the Father I do so in Jesus name, covered with His blood. In that regard I appear before the Father as Jesus appears before the father. Perfect in every way.

That is another difference between Protestant and Catholic thought. We prostrate ourselves before God and plead for mercy. You guys claim that you appear perfect.

No go.

[MarkBsnr]

By the giving of the keys of Heaven to Peter. The only keys to the kingdom were held by the monarch until he went away on a journey, and then the vicar or steward of the monarch would take the keys and look after the kingdom until the monarch returned.

Again, I ask: where in Scripture is the "Vicar of Christ" identified??

By the giving of the keys. I am sorry that your education is the usual substandard and abysmal American public school offering.

That's ignorant.

Must not be too ignorant if that's all the refutation you can muster. Look at the history of the papacy... power (and corruption) aplenty. The papacy has been more secular and sinful than apparently is accepted by the Roman Catholic Church. But, history records the truth... much to the chagrin the the Roman Catholic Church.

It's totally ignorant. Do you have even a clue as to the size of the Papal apartments versus what the Royals inhabit in Buckingham Palace?

The Bible and history say that the Catholic Church is the Church of the Living God. By whose authority do you say it is not?

The Bible and history say no such thing. Please refer me to scripture that names the Roman Catholic Church... or, for that matter, show me where the Roman Catholic Church existed in 1 AD. The Church,the catholic church, biblically, by the way, is the BODY OF BELIEVERS; not a church organized by man (Roman Catholic Church) and then named to be THE church! It just isn't so. Saying it all you want doesn't change it.

Why are you so hung up on the Latin branch of the Church? I am a believer in Christ who happens to belong to the Latin Church. So? The Catholic Church existed prior to anything that you belong to.

[metmom]

That is another difference between Protestant and Catholic thought. We prostrate ourselves before God and plead for mercy. You guys claim that you appear perfect.

That's because we already did repent and plead for mercy. We received it already. We aren't still waiting for it.

1 Peter 1:1-9 1Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who are elect exiles of the dispersion in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, 2according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in the sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience to Jesus Christ and for sprinkling with his blood: May grace and peace be multiplied to you.

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! According to his great mercy, he has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4to an inheritance that is imperishable, undefiled, and unfading, kept in heaven for you, 5who by God’s power are being guarded through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

6In this you rejoice, though now for a little while, if necessary, you have been grieved by various trials, 7so that the tested genuineness of your faith—more precious than gold that perishes though it is tested by fire—may be found to result in praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ. 8 Though you have not seen him, you love him. Though you do not now see him, you believe in him and rejoice with joy that is inexpressible and filled with glory, 9obtaining the outcome of your faith, the salvation of your souls.

You do know who this Peter guy is, don't you?

[MarkBsnr]

Oh LORD, it’s hard to be humble...

And so many of our separated friends have so much to be humble about.

[MarkBsnr]

Oh, by the way -- where exactly is "vicar of Christ" noted in the Scripture? "

These are never really arguments about what is or is not stated in Scripture, they are arguments over the interpretation of Scripture. No matter how many times Catholics post Scripture along with a fully Traditional interpretation of its meaning somebody is going to bitch, whine, insult and accuse because the Traditional interpretation is at odds with Protestant doctrine.

So when you read "Show me in Scripture" it really means "Show me in Scripture, interpreted as I interpret it". Catholics are expected to reject Catholic doctrine and to accept as valid every heretical musing as a precondition to every discussion. Those are conditions I cannot accept.

Nor should any Christian.

[MarkBsnr]

>>No go, CB. You state that I don't understand your position. That is true. Your post does not do anything to clear it up.<< Each is responsi

ble for his or her own response to the calling of the Holy Spirit. I am not responsible to those who follow the Catholic Church, the Jehovah’s witness or any other person or organization. Salvation is a personal thing not a collective thing.

Each person needs to stand before God, not before a preacher, priest, or any other man here on earth. I address error I see in teaching as it disagrees with or contradicts scripture.

I don’t presume to know what anyone believes on a personal level unless they tell me directly. I can and do read what organizations or individuals teach.

“believe on the Lord Jesus and you will be saved – you and your household” is what is needed for salvation. Adding to that simple gospel leads away from Christ and His perfect, final, finished sacrifice for all sins.

Again, as I said, this means nothing. I can justify any of the great heresies from snippets of Scripture. What makes your beliefs (whatever they are) Christian?

[MarkBsnr]

My point is that so many who prate the verse 'that every knee will bow' actually never do it.

You know this how? Personal interviews? You asked people? Observed them perhaps?

All of the above. Do you?

[MarkBsnr]

If you proclaim your own salvation, then you are on your own. I cannot help you.

[MarkBsnr]

Hebrews 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

Try a more accurate translation. The KJV has sent more would be Christians on the path to hell than just about anything else.

[MarkBsnr]

That's because we already did repent and plead for mercy. We received it already. We aren't still waiting for it.

That's right. You are still claiming that you received yesterday for the sins that you willfully commit tomorrow. That's ain't the Gospel.

[Iscool]

Because he True Church holds Holy Tradition, to be AS valid as the Holy Bible. You Protestants chose to throw out what you don’t and cannot understand.

More valid...And your tradition is not Holy...

We understand perfectly well your position on Mary, the mother of God...And we flat out reject it...

We understand your position on purgatory...And that gets rejected as well...

Nothing in your religion comes remotely close to being equal in authority with the written words of God...

We are the Christians of the scriptures, the words of God...We are NOT the religion of man made pagan traditions, superstitions and religious rituals...

[Iscool]

By the giving of the keys of Heaven to Peter. The only keys to the kingdom were held by the monarch until he went away on a journey, and then the vicar or steward of the monarch would take the keys and look after the kingdom until the monarch returned.

Peter was not given the keys to Heaven...I assume you misquote the words of God to squeeze in your religion's false position that it holds regarding its legitimacy...

Mat 16:19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven:

All the apostles and disciples were given the keys to the KINGDOM of Heaven...Not Heaven...

The Kingdom of Heaven takes place on Earth...Not in Heaven...

Mat 6:10 Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.

When the Kingdom comes, and it hasn't yet, it will be on earth...

The rest of your declaration is pure bunk...Has nothing to do with the Kingdom of Heaven...

The Kingdom is not yet here...There is no need for someone to watch over the Kingdom for God...He's quite capable of handling things Himself...

[Iscool]

These are never really arguments about what is or is not stated in Scripture, they are arguments over the interpretation of Scripture. No matter how many times Catholics post Scripture along with a fully Traditional interpretation of its meaning somebody is going to bitch, whine, insult and accuse because the Traditional interpretation is at odds with Protestant doctrine.

Nope...Your official Traditional private interpretation is at odds with the words in the scripture that it falsely interprets...