Posted on 10/15/2011 9:50:41 AM PDT by ReformationFan
Forgiveness of sin comes through Messiah & salvation for those who believe in Him & keep His commandments. All will be judged, but only those that have both, Messiah & the Torah, will enter into the Kingdom
Romans 2:[God’s Righteous Judgment] 1 Therefore you are inexcusable, O man, whoever you are who judge, for in whatever you judge another you condemn yourself; for you who judge practice the same things. 2 But we know that the judgment of God is according to truth against those who practice such things. 3 And do you think this, O man, you who judge those practicing such things, and doing the same, that you will escape the judgment of God? 4 Or do you despise the riches of His goodness, forbearance, and longsuffering, not knowing that the goodness of God leads you to repentance? 5 But in accordance with your hardness and your impenitent heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, 6 who “will render to each one according to his deeds”:[a] 7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; 8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, 9 tribulation and anguish, on every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek; 10 but glory, honor, and peace to everyone who works what is good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 11 For there is no partiality with God.
12 For as many as have sinned without law(Torah) will also perish without law, and as many as have sinned in the law will be judged by the law 13 (for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified; 14 for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, 15 who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them) 16 in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel.[NKJV]
Now when Paul closes by saying according to his gospel, we already know that Paul's works are epistles not Gospels, so what did he mean by gospel? The only gospel Paul had to teach & study from was the Torah & the Prophets, the Law of YHVH & the prophesy of the coming Messiah. So by one saying that they have Messiah but yet are exempt from the Torah, they are basically condemning themselves to eternal damnation.
Messiah was the Torah in the flesh & the two were never separated. Thus the hypocrisy of all this sibling rivalry between religions of any kind.
YHVH is calling HIS people out. Either stay comfortable in your religion of the flesh which yields no fruit, or seek true Liberty through HIS Son, Yah'shua Messiah which yields fruit so bountiful it can not be counted. It's time to call the man made religious doctrines what they are, hypocritical & full of heresy so the "True Peace" can begin to take hold.
He also did not say false teachers would arise in the end times and fool many just to hear Himself speak either.
you really don’t know the NT at all do you?
how can you say all Paul had to teach was the Torah and the Prophets?
don’t you know Jesus taught Paul directly? read 1 Corinthians 11:23 and educate yourself.
once ones leaves Christianity, you are liable to fall for anything and it appears from your confusing and contraditory posts, you do.
“And I say also unto thee, that thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.” Mat 6:18
What part of 'build my church' don't you understand?
What part of ‘build my church’ don’t you understand?
if you read her posts, she understands none of it.
What Christian doctrine proffers is that any one can enter a country & say, I believe & love this country and thus that makes me a citizen. Any society, whether it be on earth or in heaven needs laws in order to keep harmony & unity, but I guess you believe in the doctrine that any one can go where ever they please & claim membership for themselves without regard to the Law that says there is only ONE for ALL.
How's that working out for the US economy & the ten's of million illegal aliens we tax payers are supporting. So, I guess I could say back to you that what you are proffering is that YHVH & John lied to us when he wrote that Yah'shua was the TORAH made flesh. As all Scripture from Genesis to Revelation is the Inspired Word of YHVH.
Jesus IS the Word of God, not WAS.
Where in the “Torah” would Paul have found what he wrote in 1 Corinthians 11:23?
you are so caught up the Law, you miss the point Jesus fulfilled the law, something no other man or woman was capable of doing.
believers are “in Christ”, so the law can no longer condemn them because the law can not condemn Christ.
I understand it just fine
However, you read “church” because that is what the English transliterated it to be from Roman Latin & what your religious dcotrine tells you it is, but the orginal Greek calls it ecclesia, assembly, the “gathering of people together in one place for a specific purpose” either religious or political.
The ROCK is the ROCK that brought forth the living water in Exodus 17 which prophesied of the living water that came from Yah'shua when the Roman soldier pierced Him in the side.
The TORAH is the ROCK and that ROCK called TORAH is Yah’shua Messiah. The two are one in the same, NEVER to be separated. One shoouldn't take things so literal as Yah'shua said (Mt 13)
“Because it has been given to you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given. 12 For whoever has, to him more will be given, and he will have abundance; but whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken away from him. 13 Therefore I speak to them in parables, because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand. 14 And in them the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled, which says:
‘ Hearing you will hear and shall not understand,
And seeing you will see and not perceive;
15 For the hearts of this people have grown dull.
Their ears are hard of hearing,
And their eyes they have closed,
Lest they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears,
Lest they should understand with their hearts and turn,
So that I shouldheal them.’
16 But blessed are your eyes for they see, and your ears for they hear; 17 for assuredly, I say to you that many prophets and righteous men desired to see what you see, and did not see it, and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it.
Until one comprehends the why & what, they have not the knowledge in their hearts of who, only their carnal premise of who He is.
The Scriptures say that both are blind in part, the house of Judah because they did not recognize the Messiah when He came, but that was also prophesied that it would happen well ahead of time. Then there is the out of Covenant house of Isra;el, who knowing of the prophesy of Messiah, but not understanding why He was to come. Thus the reason for all the divorce talk, the falling away, the grace that brings them back in.
But that's ok, I have brought forward the Word of YHVH and now it is up to HIM as to whom HE choose to see & hear it.
A religion, albeit an immoral one.
“why he came”
Matthew 1:21
she will bear a son and you shall call his name Jesus, for He will save His people from their sins.
if you don’t accept the NT, read Isaiah 53 to find out why he came.
The Trinity is not in The Bible, neither is the Nicean Creed yet “Christians” ignore that fact.
This makes no sense in the light of Scripture.
“But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth.” 1Tim 3:15 The pillar and foundation of truth is far more than a collection of people with a specific purpose. Paul tells us Christ established his Church.
And how would you make sense of the following?
"If your brother sins against you, go and show him his fault, just between the two of you. If he listens to you, you have won your brother over. But if he will not listen, take one or two others along, so that 'every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.' If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector. "I tell you the truth, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven. Mat 81:15-18
Where do you take your concerns? Makes no sense whatsoever without the visible Church Christ established with teaching authority, and the power to loose and bind. Christians can’t even agree on what the meaning of the word “is” is.
The Church of the apostles was definitely one: "There is one body and one spirit," Paul wrote, "just as you were called to the one hope that belongs to your call, one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of us all" (Eph. 4:4-5). Paul linked this unity to the Church's common Eucharistic bread: "Because there is one bread, we who are many are one body, for we all partake of one bread" (1 Cor. 10:17). Jesus had promised at the outset that "there would be one flock, one shepherd" (John 10:16).
Think about it. Would Christ establish his Church – to teach the way, the truth – and allow thousands of interpretation as to what is the truth? If the Church doesn’t teach the Truth, Christ is a liar. If He would allow multiple versions of Truth, he’d be an idiot. I don’t believe He is either.
The consequences of their prideful interpretation of scripture is the tens of thousands of independent churches throughout this nation each addicted to their own need to desecrate the word of God. Is this what Jesus prayed for?
It doesn’t have to do with size, it has to do with control, at least sociologically. Mormonism is a ‘high demand group’ and still has many of the same characteristics of smaller cults.
Mormonism also fits the anthropological and theological definitions of a cult.
There is a huge mind control compoenent in Mormonism, the use of fear, being discouraged from reading non LDS sources, shunning and many other things.
They even have long sessions of monotone voices repeating the same phrases over and over again presided over by their prophet whom they start off by thanking him and singing praises to their founder.
First weekend in October and April, watch BYU TV for just an hour or so (General conference) and you will see what I mean. When my husband and I were first married he wanted to watch General Conference with me, just to hear the MoTab choir. After 15 minutes he fell asleep because of the monotone, soothing voices and the tripe ‘talks’. It is a form of brainwashing.
YHVH doesn't intercede in pagan practices, neither does HE force HIS children into covenant. It is a personal choice, always has been always will be. And that is why immorality & corruption is at an all time high “IN THE CHURCH” as we know it to be according to modern theology of man.
Yah’shua Messiah came to put His Father's House(ecclesia) in order, not to establish a new church.
The foundation of YHVH’s Covenants remains the same, “TORAH” which has been since the beginning. Torah is the conerstone on which HIS ecclesia was founded. It is just that the position of High Priest was taken away from man & placed back were it was always meant to be, with the Spirit, not with the blood.
Since the inception of Temple Service at Mt Sinai, the red ribbon/banner at the Temple door had always changed from red to white as a sign that the sacrifices the High Priest brought were accepted and thus the sins of the ecclesia were forgiven. After Messiah died those sacrifices, although they continued, were never again accepted as the the ribbon/banner never again turned white. Why? Because Messiah was to be the final blood sacrifice for sin. Just as it was prophesied to be.
Yha’shua is the cornerstone, the foundation Rock which is Torah and in Him only rest atonement for sins. The book of Hebrews is entirely about Temple service & the High Priesthood which atones for sins of the ecclesia. This ecclesia is nothing new as it existed in the desert at Mt Sinai when the priesthood was established since the people refused to come to the mountain, but instead had Moses go up as a mediator. Moses was the 1st High Priest who was given the authority to atone for the sins of the ecclesia.
It has always been YHVH’s intention to have personal relationships with HIS children without the aid of a mediator/priest. And that is why Yah’shua Messiah had to die. To remove the priesthood of the flesh who had added all kinds of oral law/leagalism to the the TORAH.
Think about it. When did sacrifices for sins 1st appear in Scripture? In Genesis when YHVH killed an animal in order to make coverings for Adam & Eve who had sinned. The next example we see is in the story of Cain & Abel. And the list goes on. The Mosaic laws were nothing new, the Covenant laws were held on a personal basis between YHVH & the individual. It wasn't until the people refused that personal relationship at Mt Sinai that the Covenant Laws were written down in order for the High Priest of the flesh play mediator between YHVH & HIS people. From the beginning, it has always been the intention of YHVH for HIS Torah to be written in the hearts of HIS children rather than in ink.
And that is why Yah’shua Messiah said in Jn 5:46 “For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me; for he wrote about Me. 47 But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?”
To separate Messiah from Torah is to say that the 1st ecclesia formed at the base of Mt Sinai was for naught thereby cutting our Messiah in half and casting half of Him off as irrelevant. When one separates the WORD from the SPIRIT, one is ultimately rejecting that which He is because without the WORD the Spirit has no purpose.
In 2 Timothy 3 Paul said 16 “All Scripture is God-breathed and is valuable for teaching the truth, convicting of sin, correcting faults and training in right living; 17 thus anyone who belongs to God may be fully equipped for every good work.”
The NT did not exist in the times of the Apostles, thus when Paul said All Scripture he was only talking about the Torah & the Prophets, not about letters they were writing to the different ecclesia & Apostles. So if one is going to define anything that is written in the NT, it must be done by using only that which the Apostles had to teach from, not from modern theological doctrine which was & is well known for misleading & misinterpreting the Scriptures in order to validate their transgressions.
1 Jn 3:2 "Dear friends, we are God's children now; and it has not yet been made clear what we will become. We do know that when he appears, we will be like him; because we will see him as he really is. 3 And everyone who has this hope in him continues purifying himself, since God is pure. 4 Everyone who keeps sinning is violating Torah - indeed, sin is violation of Torah. 5 You know that he appeared in order to take away sins, and that there is no sin in him. 6 So no one who remains united with him continues sinning; everyone who does continue sinning has neither seen him nor known him. 7 Children, don't let anyone deceive you - it is the person that keeps on doing what is right who is righteous, just as God is righteous. 8 The person who keeps on sinning (rejecting Torah) is from the Adversary, because from the very beginning the Adversary has kept on sinning. It was for this very reason that the Son of God appeared, to destroy these doings of the Adversary.
Romans 3:27 "So what room is left for boasting? None at all! What kind of Torah excludes it? One that has to do with legalistic observance of rules? No, rather, a Torah that has to do with trusting. 28 Therefore, we hold the view that a person comes to be considered righteous by God on the ground of trusting, which has nothing to do with legalistic observance of Torah commands. 29 Or is God the God of the Jews only? Isn't he also the God of the Gentiles? Yes, he is indeed the God of the Gentiles; 30 because, as you will admit, God is one. Therefore, he will consider righteous the circumcised on the ground of trusting and the uncircumcised through that same trusting. 31 Does it follow that we abolish Torah by this trusting? Heaven forbid! On the contrary, we confirm Torah.
So FatherofFove, might I suggest you try taking your house rules, throw them out and let each child do as they please according how they think the house should run & see how much harmony & unity remains? How many different doctrines do you think will come forth when the foundation, the Rock, the cornerstone, that keeps the house in harmony & unity is removed? And how long will it take for you to intercede to bring your house back into order?
Yes indeed, our Father in Heaven is most patient, loving, kind & merciful. Full of Grace & full of Truth.
The funny thing is the South Park episode talks about things the LDS missionaries freely admit to, most of it in the first discussion.
The REALLY sick, creepy, and heretical stuff you don’t learn until AFTER you join and then even more when you go through the LDS temple.
Been there done that (see tagline).
Umm...you do realize that the Holy Mother church changed that position, right? Vatican II re-affirmed that Protestants are brothers in Christ, however Mormons are not (John Paul II).
I can find quotes if you wish.
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