Posted on 07/14/2011 5:36:29 PM PDT by wmfights
Thank you and God bless you too :)
In our suffering we can, if we join it with His Passion and offer it up for the salvation of souls, share in the suffering of Jesus Christ and save countless souls.
Very well stated and a delight to read...thank you.... It’s always refreshing to read something as this which pulls together the truth in such a way as to be easily understood, and clarifies things so well.
I agree with this as well.
Pretty good article, but I don’t think I would use this approach when witnessing to a Muslim audience.
Let’s look at the strengths and weaknesses of Muslims in regards to His Word.
First, they do recognize a supreme God exists. They are on the right track there, but if they stray from that by attributing positions which are unScriptural or not from His Plan, then they may quickly find themselves worshipping a false god or even the Adversary.
Next let’s look at a major weakness of Islam. Fundamentally, Islam has a problem with justice. That problem really is a major point as an intermediate objective in how we describe doctrine to them.
They are correct to say God is free to forgive. What is incorrect is to assume God is able to forgive in an unjust or unrighteous fashion, which would corrupt His Holiness.
One facet the article failed to mention is the doctrine of Imputation. It is significant to understand how God provides a Plan of Salvation for all mankind in a righteous and just fashion, without violating His Holiness.
In His magnificent Plan, Jesus Christ, as the Son of God and the Son of Man, was uniquely qualified to have all of the personal sins of mankind imputed to Him on the Cross. The Cross was then All Judgment (not forgiveness).
Once all sin was judged on the Cross, we still are in a state of condemnation, UNTIL we place faith in Him, and He now being free to righteously and justly recognize us when we face Him and confess our sins,...now He is free to forgive those sins. Once forgiven, He also is free to immediately create our new man, our human spirit now being regenerated in us to form the new man in us.
We are never converted to Christianity by another human, but only by the divine act of God the Holy Spirit creating that human spirit in us. By His volition, also known as His Sovereignty, He is also free to indwell that perfect human spirit as His new dwelling place or temple.
That conversion is a Divine act, not a human act. We don;t have the ability to do it ourselves. We have the ability to believe in Him and place faith in Him, but only He is able to give us eternal life. That life is IMPUTED upon us, just as all the sins of mankind were IMPUTED upon Christ at the Cross.
If God forgives sins WITHOUT that imputation, then He may be righteously accused of unjustly forgiving whom He will.
Remember the Ark of the Covenant with the Mercy Seat in the Tabernacle. 2 Cherubim sat upon it representing His Perfect Holiness. One of the them represented His Perfect Justice, while the other represented His Perfect Righteousness,...together forming His Perfect Holiness.
Whatever was placed on the Mercy Seat between them, His Perfect Justice demanded Perfect Righteousness in Judgment and likewise His Perfect Righteousness demaned Perfect Justice in judgment of what was before them.
If the item was not corrupt it passed judgment, but that which was corrupt was burnt up.
Our Corrupt Sin Nature is likewise handled by the solution in Christ.
Redemption, Atonement, Propitiation, and Reconciliation all must be addressed when dealing with any human missing the mark when living life by His Plan (i.e. missing the target is sin).
The God of Islam, Allah, might be mercifully forgiving, but without God being Propitiated for a wrong done to Him, not by anything He had done or provided, or by anybody with Perfect Holiness able to Redeem humans from our corrupt thinking, or atoning for our sin sacrificially, or reconciling man back to a perfectly righteous and just God,...any such mercifully forgiving god outside those issues is NOT a just or righteous god, hence not the Perfectly Holy God.
The only real question then becomes, do we have faith in Christ as being the one whom God has provided to us so that He might provide us salvation from eternal condemnation with our corrupt nature? The answer is also provided by God to us, simple by a smidgeon more faith than no faith whatsoever in Christ and what He provided us on the Cross.
Happy to serve. May God bless you.
Wow... and people say the Catholic Church makes it complicated! I offer you one correction for you understanding... we are not just sinners forgiven; we are sons and daughters restored to the Family of God.
I think I can tell the answer to my next question by your post, so I ask by way of instruction... what did God see when Christ hung on the Cross?
Yes, I understand that as when Muslims do mention Christ it is with Islam in mind...not Christianity.
There are a few occassions where I have looked at some of the mulsim teachings but not comparing them with Christianity... for they come from a whole nother area of beliefs...which are political since Islam is a political agenda....though Islam does attempt to masqurade as a religion, the Koran and their beliefs are simply a means of keeping the people in bondage.
I differ with Warmfights about her approach though I understand why she is doing so. But I have seen these types of comparisons do harm to those who are not strong in God’s word and actually get hooked into islam when comparrisons are made. These might be ok for those who are called to work with Muslims...but it’s like asking me to study Freemasonary’s Pikes works..or the satanic verses. I don’t need to understand their beliefs.....it is better to know God’s word and let his spirit do the work on the hearts and minds of those who he draws...and when the time comes they wil be ready to hear the truth.
He certainly did. And he explained to them exactly where they were WRONG, and told them that Christ is the ONLY way to God. And he didn’t mix ANYTHING with the pure Gospel.
First Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus.
Certainly we should minister to muslims, if possible; and tell them how to be Saved. But it must be by Grace, through faith in Christ; plus NOTHING! Allah, and the Koran and everything else is OUT. They have no more validity in coming to God than the entrails of a chicken being tossed about and scrutinized by a poor lost medicine man in darkest Africa.
Besides the missions programs my local church supports, I support numerous other missions organizations, a number of which specificallly minister to muslims in “closed” countries. And in fact, former muslims are turning to Christ in those “closed” countries and forsaking everything islamic, to follow Him.
My only point in what I said earlier was that you NEVER mix or EQUATE the blood-bought Salvation purchased for us by Christ’s blood, with the heathen, pagan cult of islam. So why would one evenmention them in the same breath when trying to explain Salvation.
Thank you for your reply.
There isn't much to disagree with in your post. But I do want to correct something... When St Paul spoke to the men of Athens, he did mix something with the pure Gospel. He used an example from their own pagan writings to help in his explanation (Acts 17:28). It doesn't invalidate his witness. It was simply a tool to help their understanding.
Also I think we need to remember that salvation is the work of the Spirit of God. It is His ministry so one must also be in tune with Him to know when and who He is preparing and the appointed time for our involvement with the individual.
Islam is a very wretched belief system and as with all cults and those who belong to them, you need to be cautious and aware that though you may be dialoging with them , in their minds you are a candidate to bait and deceive...so discerning this when speaking to them is important.
Also they are taught how to go along with Christians, giving a false idea that they are interested, as a means of recruiting you.
Warmfights....I say this with respect but this writing sounds like your’re attempting to use the Koran to convert Muslims to Christianity.....several times mentioning a muslim’s belief but then correcting him with what the Koran really states...as if teaching them the Koran to round about bring them to the Christ of Christianity...but correcting them for not knowing what their Koran teaches. Why not simply use God’s word??
I mean no disrespect in saying this...just how it reads to me.
I’m finding that out. I’m in the middle of reading a book called, God’s War on Terrorism, by Walad Shoebot- former muslim raised in a Palestinian home where terrorism was taught. I think that’s how his name is spelled anyway. It’s an amazing book.
It is fortunate indeed, for the whole Christian world, that the Apostle Paul also cared what others believed. Cared enough to give his life in the cause of changing their beliefs. Deo gratias.
Good point.
This is where the spiritual gift of evangelism is so important as opposed to simply a soulish academic training in Christian theology. God the Holy Spirit guides the evangelist through his human spirit to perceive the needs of the unbeliever and/or portions of His Word which would be effective for the unbeliever to consider to guide him towards understanding the Gospel.
It is very important to remember God knows the heart of the unbeliever which we do not. He also has a plan for that unbeliever in His Plan. Every human being unique, may have any number of scarred thought processes which will tend to block out reception of doctrine, but also have weaknesses where they may be open to receive the Gospel to consider. That perception is crucial in properly communicating the Gospel effectively to an unbeliever, although all of us are able to give a witness and minister His Word to our fellow man.
I don't know. Is there an explicit Scripture where God provides that to man?
Excellant post Cvenger....again emphasing the importance that it is the Holy Spirit’s work, both within the un-believer..as well as within us.
There was a time where I carried a certain amount of cash available to the Lord should a need arise for another. At a resturaunt a woman went to pay for her food, tattered looking clearly needy. (I did this thru the owner so as not to be known.) When I looked at the owner he shook his head no so I refrained. I would learn later on that individual was quite wealthy.
My intentions were honorable, but the situation was not at all as I had “perceived”. The ‘owner’ knew his customers and about them. It is very similar to God knowing those He has created....we look to Him concerning those we meet and let Him determine our course of action concerning them.
Exactly right. They believe in a god that does not hold to a perfect standard but instead makes a determination based on a person's works.
They are correct to say God is free to forgive. What is incorrect is to assume God is able to forgive in an unjust or unrighteous fashion, which would corrupt His Holiness.
Which leads us to the need for a perfect sacrifice. Without this perfect sacrifice we can never satisfy righteous judgment.
Thanks for making some great points.
but I don’t think I would use this approach when witnessing to a Muslim audience.
One thing I've learned is it is impossible to witness to more than one muslim at a time. When two or more are present a dynamic occurs where they become aggressive in defending their faith.
You might want to read the article before assuming it does that.
I realize the article is rather long, but you might want to read it before assuming what it is about.
Amen Brother!
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