The Church Fathers- Mary: Ever Virgin

“And behold, an angel of the Lord stood by [St. Anne], saying, ‘Anne! Anne! The Lord has heard your prayer, and you shall conceive and shall bring forth, and your seed shall be spoken of in all the world.’ And Anne said, ‘As the Lord my God lives, if I beget either male or female, I will bring it as a gift to the Lord my God, and it shall minister to him in the holy things all the days of its life.’ . . . And [from the time she was three] Mary was in the temple of the Lord as if she were a dove that dwelt there” (Protoevangelium of James 4, 7 [A.D. 120]).

“And when she was twelve years old there was held a council of priests, saying, ‘Behold, Mary has reached the age of twelve years in the temple of the Lord. What then shall we do with her, lest perchance she defile the sanctuary of the Lord?’ And they said to the high priest, ‘You stand by the altar of the Lord; go in and pray concerning her, and whatever the Lord shall manifest to you, that also will we do.’ . . . [A]nd he prayed concerning her, and behold, an angel of the Lord stood by him saying, ‘Zechariah! Zechariah! Go out and assemble the widowers of the people and let them bring each his rod, and to whomsoever the Lord shall show a sign, his wife shall she be. . . . And Joseph [was chosen]. . . . And the priest said to Joseph, ‘You have been chosen by lot to take into your keeping the Virgin of the Lord.’ But Joseph refused, saying, ‘I have children, and I am an old man, and she is a young girl’” (ibid., 8–9).

“And Annas the scribe came to him [Joseph] . . . and saw that Mary was with child. And he ran away to the priest and said to him, ‘Joseph, whom you did vouch for, has committed a grievous crime.’ And the priest said, ‘How so?’ And he said, ‘He has defiled the virgin whom he received out of the temple of the Lord and has married her by stealth’” (ibid., 15).

“And the priest said, ‘Mary, why have you done this? And why have you brought your soul low and forgotten the Lord your God?’ . . . And she wept bitterly saying, ‘As the Lord my God lives, I am pure before him, and know not man’” (ibid.).

“The Book [the Protoevangelium] of James [records] that the brethren of Jesus were sons of Joseph by a former wife, whom he married before Mary. Now those who say so wish to preserve the honor of Mary in virginity to the end, so that body of hers which was appointed to minister to the Word . . . might not know intercourse with a man after the Holy Spirit came into her and the power from on high overshadowed her. And I think it in harmony with reason that Jesus was the firstfruit among men of the purity which consists in [perpetual] chastity, and Mary was among women. For it were not pious to ascribe to any other than to her the firstfruit of virginity” (Commentary on Matthew 2:17 [A.D. 248]).

“If they [the brethren of the Lord] had been Mary’s sons and not those taken from Joseph’s former marriage, she would never have been given over in the moment of the passion [crucifixion] to the apostle John as his mother, the Lord saying to each, ‘Woman, behold your son,’ and to John, ‘Behold your mother’ [John 19:26–27), as he bequeathed filial love to a disciple as a consolation to the one desolate" (Commentary on Matthew 1:4 [A.D. 354]).

“Let those, therefore, who deny that the Son is by nature from the Father and proper to his essence deny also that he took true human flesh from the ever-virgin Mary” (Discourses Against the Arians 2:70 [A.D. 360]).

“We believe in one God, the Father almighty, maker of all things, both visible and invisible; and in one Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God . . . who for us men and for our salvation came down and took flesh, that is, was born perfectly of the holy ever-virgin Mary by the Holy Spirit” (The Man Well-Anchored 120 [A.D. 374]).

“And to holy Mary, [the title] ‘Virgin’ is invariably added, for that holy woman remains undefiled” (Medicine Chest Against All Heresies 78:6 [A.D. 375]).

“[Helvidius] produces Tertullian as a witness [to his view] and quotes Victorinus, bishop of Petavium. Of Tertullian, I say no more than that he did not belong to the Church. But as regards Victorinus, I assert what has already been proven from the gospel—that he [Victorinus] spoke of the brethren of the Lord not as being sons of Mary but brethren in the sense I have explained, that is to say, brethren in point of kinship, not by nature. [By discussing such things we] are . . . following the tiny streams of opinion. Might I not array against you the whole series of ancient writers? Ignatius, Polycarp, Irenaeus, Justin Martyr, and many other apostolic and eloquent men, who against [the heretics] Ebion, Theodotus of Byzantium, and Valentinus, held these same views and wrote volumes replete with wisdom. If you had ever read what they wrote, you would be a wiser man” (Against Helvidius: The Perpetual Virginity of Mary 19 [A.D. 383]).

“We believe that God was born of a virgin, because we read it. We do not believe that Mary was married after she brought forth her Son, because we do not read it. . . . You [Helvidius] say that Mary did not remain a virgin. As for myself, I claim that Joseph himself was a virgin, through Mary, so that a virgin Son might be born of a virginal wedlock” (ibid., 21).

“It helps us to understand the terms ‘first-born’ and ‘only-begotten’ when the Evangelist tells that Mary remained a virgin ‘until she brought forth her first-born son’ [Matt. 1:25]; for neither did Mary, who is to be honored and praised above all others, marry anyone else, nor did she ever become the Mother of anyone else, but even after childbirth she remained always and forever an immaculate virgin” (The Trinity 3:4 [A.D. 386]).

“Imitate her [Mary], holy mothers, who in her only dearly beloved Son set forth so great an example of material virtue; for neither have you sweeter children [than Jesus], nor did the Virgin seek the consolation of being able to bear another son” (Letters 63:111 [A.D. 388]).

“You had good reason to be horrified at the thought that another birth might issue from the same virginal womb from which Christ was born according to the flesh. For the Lord Jesus would never have chosen to be born of a virgin if he had ever judged that she would be so incontinent as to contaminate with the seed of human intercourse the birthplace of the Lord’s body, that court of the eternal king” (Letter to Bishop Anysius [A.D. 392]).

“In being born of a Virgin who chose to remain a Virgin even before she knew who was to be born of her, Christ wanted to approve virginity rather than to impose it. And he wanted virginity to be of free choice even in that woman in whom he took upon himself the form of a slave” (Holy Virginity 4:4 [A.D. 401]).

“It was not the visible sun, but its invisible Creator who consecrated this day for us, when the Virgin Mother, fertile of womb and integral in her virginity, brought him forth, made visible for us, by whom, when he was invisible, she too was created. A Virgin conceiving, a Virgin bearing, a Virgin pregnant, a Virgin bringing forth, a Virgin perpetual. Why do you wonder at this, O man?” (Sermons 186:1 [A.D. 411]).

“Heretics called Antidicomarites are those who contradict the perpetual virginity of Mary and affirm that after Christ was born she was joined as one with her husband” (Heresies 56 [A.D. 428]).

“We confess, therefore, that our Lord and God, Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, born of the Father before the ages, and in times most recent, made man of the Holy Spirit and the ever-virgin Mary” (Document of Amendment 3 [A.D. 426]).

“[T]he Word himself, coming into the Blessed Virgin herself, assumed for himself his own temple from the substance of the Virgin and came forth from her a man in all that could be externally discerned, while interiorly he was true God. Therefore he kept his Mother a virgin even after her childbearing” (Against Those Who Do Not Wish to Confess That the Holy Virgin is the Mother of God 4 [A.D. 430]).

“His [Christ’s] origin is different, but his [human] nature is the same. Human usage and custom were lacking, but by divine power a Virgin conceived, a Virgin bore, and Virgin she remained” (Sermons 22:2 [A.D. 450]).

I am not trying to “prove you wrong” about your interpretation, it is that I find it amusing to me that when I quote a passage of the Bible your immediate impulse is to tell me I have it all wrong - and that your ‘madman crazy fringe’ interpretation is the correct one - and that I should re-read the Bible passage until I agree with you.

It must make you feel REAL special to be ‘in the know’ when the rest of the world just goes by a couple thousand years of Christian scholarship.

Your opinion is just that, your opinion. It isn't even a very well researched, supported or popular opinion.

I post nothing but a Bible passage...

Mat 15:11 “What goes into a man’s mouth does not make him ‘unclean,’ but what comes out of his mouth, that is what makes him ‘unclean.’ “

and your reply is.....

“That doesn’t mean what you think. That passage has to do with eating with unwashed hands, not having a pork chop. Read up for the full context.”

You are quite confused. You should read up on the Bible until your foolishness and pride are put in check.

I will pray for you.

And how about stoning a woman to death for adultery?

Has that also not changed?

You said you answered my questions, but you failed to answer that one.

You are confused. The law was fulfilled - thus there is no more need to stone adulterers, obey dietary laws, or observe circumcision.

You seem to agree on 2/3. Should we leave it at that?

You are rude and insulting. I post a Bible passage, and ONLY a Bible passage - and you jump in telling me your understanding is superior and I need to read the Bible until I agree with your wacky lone voice in the wilderness (with delusions of being a prophet).

In all my years on FR - you are the only one I have EVER seen START an argument based solely upon a poster (me) quoting the Bible.

Apparently you disagree with the simple statement that Jesus expressed when he said....

“A man is not made unclean by what enters his mouth, but by what comes out of it.”

He even said it twice.

Adding the second time “Are you still so stupid?”

Apparently some are. They need it explained twice - and they STILL don't understand.

I feel sorry for you.

I will pray for you.

What did Jesus the Christ say to his disciples when they asked him to re say the lesson?

“Are you still so stupid?”

You were trying to “help” me away from the almost universally held interpretation - towards your admitted ‘lone voice in the wilderness’ fringe interpretation.

That isn't help - it is arrogance.

Your constant refrain is that I (and apparently the rest of the Christian world) don't understand Scripture. And then your complaint is that I don't respect your wacky fringe interpretation.

Hey- you finally got one right! I don't!

I will pray for you.

These Fathers learned their faith from those who personally knew the Apostles. Yet you believe you have the superior knowledge.

You seem you have superior knowledge what happened 2000 years ago by what man told you!! LOL!! I get my knowledge directly from the Holy Spirit Inspired Word of God.

They learned their faith? How is that done?

Truly Protestantism of a certain type is full of arrogant pups.

RCC teachings nullify God's Word and that Mary doctrine is from the pit! Arrogance is expecting to be with God in His glory forever while deliberately disobedient to His Word along with committing idolatry.

Isaiah 29:13 The Lord says: "These people come near to Me with their mouth and honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from Me. Their worship of Me is made up only of rules TAUGHT BY MEN".

God knew before the beginning ot time what 'these people' would do and he's telling them here. God judges our heart their hearts are far from Me. Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'

If HIS WORD isn't Number ONE is one's life - neither is Jesus who is The Word. It's ALL about Jesus. God's Word is The Final Authority.

Whatever. Cry some more. Pretend your a martyr in addition to being a prophet if such feeds your massive ego.

I am saying I will pray for you because I hope you see the light, not because I see you as an “enemy” - that is just more of your own self serving delusion.

Do you think God wants the sort of attitude YOU have shown - that everyone but you is wrong - they don’t understand - they need to read the Bible until they agree with your ‘lone voice in the wilderness’ interpretation?

God only wanted that attitude from his ACTUAL prophets, not keyboard commandos who jump on a Bible verse posted to insist that they (and apparently everyone else) has it wrong - but YOU - YOU are the one who is RIGHT!

I will pray for you.

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.