Posted on 04/27/2011 8:10:30 AM PDT by Alex Murphy
While the Showtime production may be interesting I usually don’t watch the historical novel type of story. Just a personal preference.
I’ve read more than a bit about the time and find all the excusing and apologies as fascinating as the story its self.
Thanks for the link!
Give me your hand and I’ll take you through it s l o w l y and c a r e f u l l y.
??? "non-issue" ???
Really?
Every Catholic church historian I know of thinks that Alexander VI was a scumbag, and that his scandalous & reprehensible behavior was one of the waystations on the path to the reformation.
That's not a "non-issue," sorry, and you lose credibility by saying stuff like that.
This is an excerpt from the account of the death of Pope Alexander VI.
“On Friday, the 18th, between nine and ten o’clock he confessed to the Bishop Gamboa of Carignola, who then read mass to him. After his communion he gave the Eucharist to the Pope who was sitting in bed. Then he ended the mass at which were present five cardinals, Serra, Juan and Francesco Borgia, Casanova and Loris. The Pope told them that he felt very bad. At the hour of vespers after Gamboa had given him extreme unction, he died.”
Christian teaching is clear when a man repents and confesses his sins those sins are lifted from him and forgiven. Whether it is at the last minute or whether it is a daily the result is the same. Jesus forgives those sins. Yes according to Catholic teaching the soul will spend time in purgatory before entering heaven. Yet even in Protestant teaching there is no suggestion that sincere repentence and confession does not lift the burden of sin from the soul. That Jesus forgiveness of sin is ever incomplete and the person still hazards hell (I mean confession of the dying where there is no chance to commit more sins).
So chew on this. According to historical fact Pope Alexander confessed his sins. I accept that he was sincere and that he received forgiveness. That means this base, corrupt, sinful, scandalous man is now with Christ in Glory. (I’ll assume his time in Purgatory is finished.) He shares in the unending hymn of praise and on the last day will share in the ressurection of the dead.
Christ loves this sinner and forgave him out of that love. Did Alexander deserve forgiveness? When measured against the price Christ paid for those sins we must answer no. But when measured against the love Christ has for us we realize deserve does not enter into this equation.
I am a sinner. Just because by the rules of men my sins are less scandalous does not mean I can forget the price paid for them. Our default judgment without the merits of Christ is hell.
Christ is risen and He trampled death. Only by this are we given hope of heaven. His mercy and His love and His grace are not mine to boast of but to be humbly grateful for.
So wax all superior that Catholics have this great sinner in their closet (more like a greenhouse). Me I’ll just be humbled that grace is not held back from even the most base sinner should he approach God with a contrite heart.
VERY WELL PUT.
EXCELLENT POINTS.
THX.
Given that the tolerance and protection of the abusive priests was nation wide and typical of the majority of the bishops one can only suppose the bishops acted upon established and understandably unwritten Church policy.
In contrast to Papist Bigots?
I am on the ping list an I read nearly every one. I rarely comment because I don't see lies about the Church go unchallenged.
It is interesting to note who self identifies as an anti-Catholic.
Well and Biblically put, I think.
Agreed.
Not all Lutherans.
The LCMS and others don’t follow the slide the ELCA has.
Post #30, AM: I don't find you having posted even a single thread on the subject of abortion in your entire history on FR. For the record, here's a sampling of mine.
Post #37, NL: ....I don't need to when my work and that of the Church is boldly, and too often completely alone in defense of Life. You posted some threads on abortion. BFD (Big Fat Deal)
I'm so sorry I've disappointed you yet again. Am I going to have to stand before you at the Last Judgment, like count-your-change has to?
You fell away from the True Church and we pray for your swift reconciliation and return to the flock of the Faithful.
More importantly, we know that the True Church has a place in your heart and your soul.
We welcome your inevitable return to the Holy Church.
When did my "falling away" happen? What parish(es) did I attend beforehand? And if I "come back", will I be required to resign my commission in the God Squad?
I don't think you can lose something that has already been lost.
I think you overestimate yourself.
I myself, and I'd bet that a few others here feel this way, just think of the usual suspects the same way I think of DU posters. In other words, just sad strange people to be pitied.
For a certainty when called to judgment I won't pull out a list of all the “good” things I've done, marching in demonstrations, signing petitions and claiming I fought “the good fight” all alone.
Nor will I have to explain why I called the perverted “Brother” and “Father” as though part of them.
You: I think you overestimate yourself.
I stand corrected. While I still live inside of their heads, some have made attempts at extorting rent.
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