The Church Fathers-Mary: Without Sin

The Church Fathers ^ | 70AD-584AD

[nina0113]

If that's true, Mary could have died for the sins of the world. We needed someone without original sin to die for us sinners.

Except of course, that she wasn't and isn't divine. Jesus saved her FIRST, at the very moment of her conception, and restored the ability (lost by Eve for all of us, thanks much) to make a choice for or against obedience, with no influence from Satan.

[paladin1_dcs]

Mary was sinless? Are you really going to spout something as blasphemous as this, knowing that I'm about to break out the book of Romans on your Roman Catholic butt? You can stack all of the dead Roman Catholics you want up in support of your idea, I'm going to continue to trump you with direct Scripture quotes and we both know that Scripture, as the inspired Word of God, trumps tradition.

Rom 3:23 KJV - For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

Rom 5:12 KJV - Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

Now, we know that God, speaking through His servant Paul, cannot err, you are caught in your own heresy. Repent and reject this evil, as it is in direct contradiction of Scripture.

[D-fendr]

Left one out:

Martin Luther

"But the other conception, namely the infusion of the soul, it is piously and suitably believed, was without any sin, so that while the soul was being infused, she would at the same time be cleansed from original sin and adorned with the gifts of God to receive the holy soul thus infused. And thus, in the very moment in which she began to live, she was without all sin..."

[marshmallow]

This is like looking to the writings of Supreme Court Justice Ginsburg for authoritative statements on the personal life of George Washington. She is so far removed from any personal knowledge of the facts that were she to write anything that contradicts what Washington’s contemporaries had said, you would be very foolish to take Ginsburg’s word over theirs.

I think you've got it backwards.

It's us who are removed from the early Church. It's our modern [American] world which has completely lost the connection.

The Church Fathers are the men who knew the Apostles, in some cases, and in other cases, knew those men who were taught by the Apostles. Irenaeus is a good example, as is Justin Martyr.

This might be hard to believe but we do not know more about Scripture than they did.

[presently no screen name]

Catholicism ‘tries’ to distort God’s Word as liberalism ‘tries’ to distort the Constitution. Both peas in a pod - to distort TRUTH!

Christians and Conservatism vs Catholicism and Liberalism.

Good vs. Evil

Truth vs. Propaganda/heresy.

Freedom (God given rights) vs. Socialism/Control (man made teachings Vatican)

[what's up]

this thread was motivated, as I said in post #1, by the desire to rebut some of the garbage posted on this thread.

Why not notate that?

The title of your thread is provocative on a stand-alone basis for the thousands of people who never saw the other one.

The obvious antidote to too many Catholic threads, of course, is to provide us with some alternatives.

There are already hundreds of alternatives here every day...of a political nature. Which is what Free Republic is about.

[veracious]

Correct, further, although not recorded, I personally suspect that Mary was with the disciples when Jesus/Yeshua breathed on them and said "receive the holy spirit", the firstborn of the 2nd covenant church. This is when I believe the disciples and Mary were saved, for their previous belief was not in a resurrected Lord, until that moment. The presence of Christ entered them.

Yet later, the 120 received the power of the Holy Spirit; does anyone think Mary was there, with the faithful, those waiting for the promise of Jesus:

he charged them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the promise of the Father, which, he said, "you heard from me, 5 for John baptized with water, but before many days you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit."

and "But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be my witnesses in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Sama'ria and to the end of the earth."

[paladin1_dcs]

Of course she did. Christ saved her ahead of time so that she could be a fit mother. God stands outside time.

Umm, no, Christ didn't save her ahead of time. She even admitted to needing a savior herself long after Christ was born. It seems your heresy tradition is getting in the way of the Gospel. Didn't Christ have some very harsh words for those who clung to tradition?

[Lera]

REVISIONIST, UNBIBLICAL, PRETEND, FANTASY "HISTORY" STRIKES AGAIN!


They totally ignore the WORD
Romans 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

[Lera]

REVISIONIST, UNBIBLICAL, PRETEND, FANTASY "HISTORY" STRIKES AGAIN!


They totally ignore the WORD

Romans 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

[ForAmerica]

Except of course, that she wasn't and isn't divine. Jesus saved her FIRST, at the very moment of her conception, and restored the ability (lost by Eve for all of us, thanks much) to make a choice for or against obedience, with no influence from Satan.

Where are you getting this extra-biblical information from?

Correction, Adam lost it not Eve. When she ate the fruit nothing happened, it wasn't until Adam ate they both fell. Gen. 3:7

[marshmallow]

Are you really going to spout something as blasphemous as this, knowing that I'm about to break out the book of Romans on your Roman Catholic butt? You can stack all of the dead Roman Catholics you want up in support of your idea, I'm going to continue to trump you with direct Scripture quotes and we both know that Scripture, as the inspired Word of God, trumps tradition.

Actually, it doesn't.

Scripture is to be understood in the light of tradition. They go together. Scripture divorced from tradition gives us the cacophony of conflicting scriptural interpretations which have fractured and weakened Christendom. Yours is just one of many. These interpretations are personal, subjective, improvised and often heretical.

I don't care for them.

I want the interpretations of those whom Jesus actually commissioned; the Apostles and their successors. That's what's important to me. That's why I'm providing you with the opinion of the Church Fathers.

Ignore them at your peril.

[wmfights]

REVISIONIST, UNBIBLICAL, PRETEND, FANTASY "HISTORY" STRIKES AGAIN!

It wouldn't be quite so bad if the damage done by this blasphemy (Mary is sinless) were limited to their sect. However, if you study the counterfeit faith of islam you find that they believe the Chrirtian Trinity is God the Father, Mary and Jesus.

Sura 5:116 "And behold! Allah will say: 'O Jesus the son of Mary! Didst thou say unto men, worship me and my mother as gods in derogation of Allah?'"

It's easy to understand how the confusion occurred with such things as the ill conceived phrase "Mother of God", bowing down to statues of Mary, claiming Mary has supernatural powers, and praying to Mary.

[presently no screen name]

This might be hard to believe but we do not know more about Scripture than they did.

Why don't you know this?

Rom 3:23 KJV - For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

Rom 5:12 KJV - Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

It's right there - rejecting it doesn't make it go away to suite the catholic agenda. Jesus is The Word - reject Him at one's own peril and to the glee of the one who has opposed Him from the beginning - the father of lies!

[ForAmerica]

Amen!

[nina0113]

Eve started the process. If you think that’s extra-biblical, perhaps you should re-read Genesis. I’m doing you the courtesy of presuming you have read it once.

[Ransomed]

Gene Wolfe is one of my favorite authors.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gene_Wolfe

Freegards

[Quix]

Is that an . . . expectation, exhortation, . . . something . . .

encouraging Proddys to surrender the Rel Forum to the RC’s?

LOL.

[presently no screen name]

Good point about the temple! But when one doesn’t take God’s Word as THE Final Authority - even common sense escapes them.

[Quix]

AS WELL AS

ignoring Holy Spirit’s attempts to lead them into all truth about The Word and life in Christ.