Mohler takes on 'theistic evolution'

Associated Baptist Press ^ | January 13, 2011 | Bob Allen

[kosta50]

IMHO, if there is no such thing as inherent value, you have some other problems logically

Sorry to be blunt, but is this another reductio ad absurdum, à la uncaused cause?

[kosta50]

What life means

Oh boy!

[D-fendr]

is this another reductio ad absurdum

No but it is, as alluded some time back, similar to the problem of infinite regress of dependent causes. It's the problem of infinite regress of be-causes. Without inherent value (no because needed), some axiom, self-evident truth, assumed to be true, etc., you have an infinite logical regress.

It's the limit of logic's conditionality.

Not that you have to reach it, but if you claim your values are all *purely* logic based...

[D-fendr]

Oh boy!

Now, how did I know that would peg your meter? :)

Of course one can also conclude or act as though life (one's own and life in general) has no meaning; or, as perhaps describes your view, that if it does have meaning, we can't know what it is.

In all cases, I think it a universal question for humans fortunate enough to be able to consider it - beyond mere survival.

[kosta50]

Without inherent value (no because needed)...

So, what's an inherent value of a Paramecium?

[kosta50]

Of course one can also conclude or act as though life (one's own and life in general) has no meaning

Or we can assume that is has...and spend a whole life making up feel-good reasons why.

[armordog99]

Life can have meaning because you choose for it to have meaning. Whether you have a theistic or non-theistic worldview you have made a choice. Some people may believe that a deity has spoken to them, but this is an unprovable statement.

I agree with you that we are fortunate that we can consider these things. However, One of the reasons I think there are more cases of depression and or mental illness in humans is because we have so much time to just think.

Over the course of our species evolution I don't think there was as much time to just sit and think. It was a day to day struggle just to live.

[D-fendr]

So, what's an inherent value of a Paramecium?

I'd say "life."

[D-fendr]

Or we can assume that is has...and spend a whole life making up feel-good reasons why.

Certainly another possibility.

I think if we examine closely, almost everyone either knows, think they know or assumes that their life has meaning and purpose - the reason they get out of bed in the morning.

[D-fendr]

Thanks for your reply.

Life can have meaning because you choose for it to have meaning.

There's a lot to think about in that statement.

Some people may believe that a deity has spoken to them, but this is an unprovable statement.

For me, when I hear a preacher, for example, say, "God told me that.." my BS meter goes up.

But I do think we have a relationship to or with something that transcends; there's an interaction and communication of a kind. Of course, that's an unprovable statement too. :)

In general, do you think something can be true but unprovable?

[kosta50]

In general, do you think something can be true but unprovable?

How would you know?

[kosta50]

I'd say "life."

How about a leaf? It's alive, right?

[D-fendr]

How about a leaf? It's alive, right?

Yep. All life.

[kosta50]

I think if we examine closely, almost everyone either knows, think they know or assumes that their life has meaning and purpose - the reason they get out of bed in the morning

Or maybe it's a habit. What's the purpose of running red lights? Or of dinosaurs? Nothing so far you mentioned proves the "intrinsic value" of anything except what we personally or as a society make up. I love that program "Life after People" that shows how the world and even our pets would do just fine if suddenly the humans were to disappear.

The world existed before us and could continue existing after us just fine. The entire human history is a series of scenarios with faceless players trying to make this world, indeed all of existence, about us.

On a tiny spec of dust in space, a blue dot no one is near enough to even notice, about as notorious as an ant that was hatched last week in my back yard.

Purpose and "intrinsic values" are feel-good constructs.

[kosta50]

Yep. All life

And the purpose (or is it just a consequence) is?

[D-fendr]

Purpose and "intrinsic values" are feel-good constructs.

What possible purpose could you have for saying that?

[D-fendr]

And the purpose (or is it just a consequence) is?

If I'm understanding the question correctly:

It means that all other conditions being equal, we shouldn't destroy life. That it's not a coin-flip decision to destroy or not destroy life (all other conditions being equal).

[D-fendr]

I should add the corollary: All other conditions being equal, we ought act in ways that further life.

[D-fendr]

How would you know?

I think we're looping back to "what is knowing" here. And what is considered sufficient proof.

[D-fendr]

I appreciate your clarification back on this post. I finally get what you mean, sorry I was slow.

The way I see it, the only way to know the truth, i.e. to know the way the world truly is, and why it is, is to know everything there is to know, and we can't know that.

In very broad terms, I'm in broad agreement. :)

But can't we know the truth more accurately or less accurately?