Posted on 12/05/2010 6:14:57 PM PST by RnMomof7
Absolutely
Love it.
Wonderful.
Thanks.
We dispute theology, specifically Catholic theology
Backtrack as you will and deny, those posts are yours. You own them.
wigglebee seems especially angry and omniscient lately.
I barely know what the comic books are.
And only from the wailing about them by FR Rabid Clique RC’s
Thanks for being soooooooooooooooooo
TERMINALLY WRONG
YET AGAIN!
Naw.
It seems to me that particularly the RC Rabid Clique types hereon
feel, write and act
omniscient
most of the time.
They just wrap it in more layers of white hankys sometimes.
Now give and explain the context of this verse because out of the context you represent it to mean something completely different than the lesson that Jesus was teaching. He was NOT referring to all tradition.
Looking for cover?
Oh? You speak for everyone here now?
Many of us are married to Catholics or former Catholics and have family that are Catholic.
I've never come across an anti-Catholic on here who is married to a practicing Catholic. As for the claims of many that they are former Catholics or are married to former Catholics, many of these claims are hysterically transparent in their falseness.
We dispute theology, specifically Catholic theology
Actually, much of the Catholic theology that is disputed has NEVER been Catholic teaching at all.
Backtrack as you will and deny, those posts are yours. You own them.
I've never denied any posts I've made, all I've done is clarify obvious misinterpretations of those posts.
Clinton would be so proud
“”The Virgin Mary and Jesus share the SAME blessing here””
Very good,dear friend.Our Lord shared many things with His Mother
I love what Blessed Pope Leo XIII once wrote in His encyclical on the Rosary...
“Moreover, one must remember that the Blood of Christ shed for our sake and those members in which He offers to His Father the wounds He received, the price of our liberty, are no other than the flesh and blood of the virgin, since the flesh of Jesus is the flesh of Mary, and however much it was exalted in the glory of His resurrection, nevertheless the nature of His flesh derived from Mary remained and still remains the same (de Assumpt. B. V. M., c.v., among the Opera S. Aug).”Pope Leo XIII
Every Catholic needs to read this...
FIDENTEM PIUMQUE ANIMUM
ENCYCLICAL OF POPE LEO XIII
ON THE ROSARY
http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/leo_xiii/encyclicals/documents/hf_l-xiii_enc_20091896_fidentem-piumque-animum_en.html
sola wigglebee
lol, the gold standard no less
I think it is 2 things.. 1st Perhaps they Think jesus had to be raised in a petri dish.. only a perfect womb, a perfect breast, perfect milk, perfect mother could raise Christ ..forgetting that Jesus came to live in this fallen world, to live with sinners and die at their hands..
Plus I think it a combination of the leaders of Roman and most catholics being essenes.. the body is sinful, sex is sinful and the issue most of us have thinking of our mom and dad having sex.. it just "feels" unseemly
But the real question to me is , as you note, that the divinity of Jesus is somehow tied to Mary, which is why they become so unhinged
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Lazarus is not analogous to PTDS (prayer to departed saints), as the case with the latter is that they are in heaven and able to hear and respond to potentially billions of prayers simultaneously, an attribute of Deity never shown to have been given to man, and are purportedly making intercession to God. The issue is no >You don’t know what a prayer is and you also don’t know your Bible. The word “pray” comes from the Latin word precari, which simply means to entreat or ask. A prayer is a form of communicating a request,, typically of a spiritual nature. Also, Jesus would never have commanded Lazurus, given their relationship. That would have been highly disrespectful.”< >>The word for how Jesus spoke to Lazarus is not “precari” - “pray”, it’s “eipon” - “having said” ...The word in the Greek is to command.<< |
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The issue is not simply what the word prayer means, but its object, and the spiritual relation that exists between God and man in the spiritual realm, and the separation of realms which God manifests, and thus communication between created heavenly beings and earthlings always were personal encounters, while relations between people on earth is not to be by telepathy. Lazarus is not analogous to PTDS (prayer to departed saints), as the case with the latter is that they are in heaven and able to hear and respond to potentially billions of prayers simultaneously, an attribute of Deity never shown to have been given to man, and are purportedly making intercession to God. Lazarus likely had not yet ascended (that's another study) and was being address by the Lord, not for help but to obey, and if another addressed Lazarus he would be talking to the wall. The foundational issue is that of Scriptural warrant and conflation. The Bible teaches abundantly on prayer, and in order to warrant PTDS (praying to departed saints in heaven) one must find an approved example or teaching of it, and some insufficiency in Christ as regards immediate access or ability or compassion, etc. Yet the Bible provides just the opposite and clearly so. The advocate of PTDS is thus left seeking to extrapolate this out of analogy between earthly communications, supposing a complete correspondence to that between earth and heaven, and or a "God can do anything" hermeneutic, but which is a strained and problematic exegesis which cannot overcome the weight of evidence against it, and such attempts are typical of cults when faced with the same. To substantiate that PTDS is Scriptural, one needs to, from the Bible (and in order of importance), |
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provide just one example, among the multitude of prayers in the Bible, where anyone besides heathen prayed to, addressed, anyone else in heaven but the Lord. |
Example, descriptions, instructions. See Bible prayers here Gen. 15:2; 17:18; 18:23; 18:23-32; 24:12-14; 32:9-12; Ex. 25:22; 32:11-13; 33:12-19; Num. 6:23-26; 10:35-36; 11:11-16; 12:13-14; 14:13-19; 27:15-18; Dt. 3:23-25; 9:25; 9:26-29; 21:7-9; 26:5-10; Josh. 7:7-9; Jdg 6:13; 6:15; 6:15-17; 6:36-37; 6:39; 13:8; 16:8; 1Ki. 3:5-61; 17:20-21; 18:25-26; 18:27-37; 19:4; 2Chr. 6:40; 14:11; 20:6-12; 30:18-19; Neh. 1:4,5; 1:4-11; 4:4-5; 9:5-38; Ps. 4:1; 5:3; 6:9; 17:1; 35:13; 39:12; 42:8; 54:2; 55:1; 61:1; 64:1; 65:2; 66:19,20:69:13; 72:15; 80:4; 84:8; 86:1,6; 86:6; 88:2,13; 90:1; 102:1,17; 109:4,7; 141:2,5; 142:1; 143:1; Prov. 15:8,29; 28:8;
Mat. 6:9-13; 11:25-27; 17:21; 21:22; 26:39; Lk. 1:9,13; 6:12; 18:10-13; 19:46; 23:30; 23:34; 23:46; Jn.11:41-42; 17:1-22; 17:1-26; Acts 1:14,24-25; 3:1; 6:4; 9:6; 10:2,31; 12:5; 16:13,16; Heb. 2:18; 4:15,16; 7:25; 10:19-22; 13:20-21; Rev. 6:16-16; 22:2022:20 |
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provide one place where exhortations, commands or instruction or descriptions on prayer directed believers to pray to departed saints or angels. ("i.e. "After this manner pray, Our mother, who art in heaven...").. |
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show where believers in Christ cannot have direct access to God in heaven, or where any insufficiency exists in Christ regarding immediacy, ability, or compassion that would require or advantage another intercessor in heaven between Christ and man, besides the Holy Spirit. (Ex. 25:22; Eph. 2:18; Heb. 2:18; 4:15,16; 7:25; 10:19-22; etc.) |
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If believers can pray to the departed saints for help in their Christian life, then show why they cannot call upon saints for salvation, and where the Bible supports that. |
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show where departed souls in heaven are taking prayer requests addressed to them. |
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show where the departed are given the Divine attribute of omniscience, so they can hear and process an infinite amount of prayer. (Ps. 65:2; 139:4; Prov. 15:3) |
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provide where any communication between believers on earth and heavenly beings besides God took place apart from a personal visitation, either by men being caught up to heaven or by angels coming to earth. (Jdg. 13; Mk. 9:2-9; Rev. 4:1ff;) |
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show where anyone else is called "Queen of heaven" other than Jer 44:17 (“But we will certainly do whatsoever thing goeth forth out of our own mouth, to burn incense unto the queen of heaven,” who was a heavenly object of devotion and prayer. |
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If believers can pray to the departed saints for help in their Christian life, then show why they cannot call upon saints for salvation, and where the Bible supports that. |
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Show where another basic necessary practice has zero positive examples and is contrary to whatever is stated on the issue. |
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*There is no express command against consensual cannibalism (whoever dies first we will have for dinner) either, among other things. And while its basic prohibition is justly derived from Gn. 9:3,5,6 which establishes the source of man's food, yet in keeping with the foundational law of love, in dire circumstance of necessity it might be allowed (and with the Andes survivors).t simply praying to the deceased, but of the separation of realms which God manifests, and thus communication between created heavenly beings and earthlings always were personal encounters, while relations between ppl on earth is not to be by telepathy. The Bible teaches abundantly on prayer, and in order to warrant PTDS, one must find an approved example or teaching of it, and some insufficiency in Christ as regards immediate access or ability or compassion, etc. Yet the Bible provides just the opposite and clearly so. The advocate of PTDS is thus left seeking to extrapolate this out of analogy between earthly communications, supposing a complete correspondence to that between earth and heaven, and "God can do anything" hermeneutic, but which is a strained and problematic exegesis which cannot overcome the weight of evidence against it, and typical of cults when faced with the same. |
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“She was a very special woman ...” When anyone fulfills the destiny on their life, that which God called them to, we often view as special. Moses, Abraham, Paul, Esther, David, etc., etc.
John the Baptist received the Holy Spirit when six months in the womb. NO ONE else experienced that. And spent his whole life in the desert preparing to be used to ‘prepare The Way’. I would say that is obedience supreme and very very special. Of course, that’s what ‘man’ does - assign a calling on how special a person is.
BUT that is not the way HIS KINGDOM (supernatural) operates, that is man/this world’s (natural) way. God knows what man is like, so He says.. Trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean NOT on your own understanding; in all your ways acknowledge Him, and He will make your paths straight. Do not be wise in your own eyes; fear the LORD and shun evil.
Evil - assigning to The Most Holy Pure God, the things of man/this world. God is no respecter of person, man is. His Ways are higher than ours. Hence, man made teaching/tradition do not exist in HIS KINGDOM. Hence, Mary and John the Baptist are who God’s says they are, His servants.
However, we should not think anyone is more special - the ‘call’ to establish His Kingdom ‘for us’ is special - His love for us - not the one who is assigned to that call.
The Last Supper was actually the Last “passover “ and the 1st Lords Supper.
Gods intervention to end the slavery of His people by the Egyptians held many types that pointed to Christ’s death .
We see as a prime example the final plague God brought on the Egyptians.
Every 1st born was to die at the hand of Gods avenging angel.
God gave specific orders on how the jews were to be protected from that sword of death.
They were to have a perfect Lamb and to slaughter him. They were to spread the blood of that lamb over the drop posts ( in a shape similar to a cross) When the angel saw that blood he would pass over that home and the people inside were preserved from the plague.
God gave specific instructions on how to eat that Lamb, that passover meal was to be a ritual that would be celebrated in remembrance of the grace and salvation of God for His people.
That meal prefigured Christ, on the night Jesus was betrayed they celebrated the meal that prefigured His coming .
Christ OUR PASSOVER LAMB would be slain, and many would be saved that were under His blood.
There was a piece of matzo broken into 3 parts.
One pieces was broken and the hidden piece it was wrapped in white linen ( as Christ dead body was in the tomb ) it is called the aphikomen
When the meal is finished the host breaks off olive-size pieces of matzoh from the aphikomen and distributes them to all. They each eat it, in a reverent manner. Sometimes there is a blessing, “In memory of the Passover sacrifice, eaten after one is sated.”
It was at THIS point during the Last Supper Jesus broke the bread and passed bits to His disciples; however, Jesus added the significant words given in Luke 22:19),
Luk 22:19 And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake [it], and gave unto them, saying,[b] This is my body which is given for you:[/b] this do in remembrance of me.
The symbolic broken matzo wrapped in white linen was the symbolic body of Christ revealed in the passover meal. Jesus was revealing the prophetic nature of the passover and the passover meal.
Consider that Jews had a probation against the eating of blood, yet not one disciple asked Jesus what He meant. That is because they understood when he took the APHIKOMEN into his hands, this broken Matzo that had been hidden in a linen wrap was symbolic of HIM.
Matzo has no leaven, leaven is a sign of sin. Jesus was sinless.
The Matzo had been broken as His body would be broken .
It was wrapped in linen as He would be and be hidden for a time.
This is the exact spot where Jesus proclaimed “This is my body which is given for you.” as he held that broken Matzo
The next step of the ritual meal is drinking from the wine-goblet called the “Cup of Redemption.” That’s when Jesus said,
“This cup is the New Testament (Covenant ) in my blood, which is shed for you.”
The Passover meal was a REMEMBRANCE of the deliverance of the Jews. Just as the passover was a type of Christ so is the Passover meal.
Jesus was telling them this, and He was telling them NOW instead of the remembrance of the passover, their eyes were opened and the meaning revealed NOW they were to do the mean in remembrance of HIM, of His blood, the blood of the Lamb of God.
As He held that bread He was revealing the mystery that the symbolism held.
Think of the words the apostles used
1Cr 11:24 And when he had given thanks, he brake [it], and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.
The broken matzo was a type of Christ, who’s body would be broken for them.
Then in the passover tradition
The host now takes the third cup of wine, “the cup of redemption,” or “the cup of blessing,” and offers the main table grace blessing. (In Jewish tradition, the main blessing comes after the meal.) Then they all drink from the third cup.
Luke 22:20,
“Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, ‘This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you’.”
Here is what the apostles and disciples said at the Lords table
1Cr 10:16 The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ?
The were recalling “remembering” the PASSOVER ritual. THEY understood that Jesus was revealing a spiritual truth about the passover being a prophetic meal that prefigured HIM.
The Passover was fulfilled on the day that Christ died, and so from that day forward that meal not longer held a prophetic promise of a future savior, but it was now a remembrance of the completed work of salvation at the cross.
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