Testimony of a Former Irish Priest

BereanBeacon.Org ^ | Richard Peter Bennett

[Quix]

CHRIST does not 100% identically equal FATHER GOD.

The label

"MOTHER OF GOD"

implies, indicates,
ASSERTS ESSENTIALLY
THAT
the Vatican
teaches
that

Christ
100% identically
equals
FATHER GOD.

That's a
by now
DELIBERATE
deception,
a falsehood,
a seduction,
a lie.

My doggedly logical synapses
CANNOT
slice it any other way,
given the abundant evidence.

[xone]

Unfortunately, I know Lutherans who idolize Martin Luther. Maybe not to the level of Mary by the RC’s, but a similar slippery path.

I don't know any and I'm around them Lutherans all the time. If they are even approaching 1% of the level of RCs and Mary, it would be in every paper, especially Catholic ones. While I am thankful to God for raising up ML, it would never occur to me to pray to him, or call upon him for anything. In heaven he has much bigger fish to fry so to speak, as do all who have passed to their reward. So these Lutherans you speak of much be conservatives, since the liberal ones have ceased being Christian IMO let alone Lutheran. All his published work is centered on the Members of the Trinity, not himself.

[Quix]

[xone]

Old Reg is making a point of asking Catholics what we believe in, so it’s fair to find out likewise.

I don't disagree that it might be 'fair', but if he chooses to not tell you it is more likely MYOB.

[Deo volente]

As to our refusal to provide footnotes, please remember what you yourself said when somebody put up a very clear statement from Crazy Louie (de Montfort) firmly clarifying the primacy of God and the subordination of Mary as creature. If I recall correctly you immediately impugned his motive.

I was the one who posted that excerpt from "True Devotion to Mary". I couldn't believe the frenzied scrambling for cover that ensued.

If you're a Catholic here, you're darned if you do and darned if you don't (post something). I was going to use a stronger word, but thought better of it.

[wmfights]

He ends by pronouncing sentence and declaring that the anathematized person is condemned to hell with Satan. The priests reply, “Fiat!” (Let it be done!) and throw down their candles.

Fire away boys it means nothing!

They have no power to save. They have no power to condemn. It's a bunch of ritualistic mumbo jumbo. This kind of nonsense condemns them. They have taken the legitimate issue of church discipline and twisted it into a tool to make members subservient to them.

I pray that those who see this for what it is turn to Jesus. The alternative is He will tell them "I never knew you".

[Quix]

Another great Biblical post. Bears repeating--MAYBE with a tad of Quixicated editorializing:

For me, the issue goes to the importance of a name and most especially, a Name of God.

After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. - Matthew 6:9

The Names of God are so important, He specifically warned us never to diminish them:

And ye shall overthrow their altars, and break their pillars, and burn their groves with fire; and ye shall hew down the graven images of their gods, and destroy the names of them out of that place. Ye shall not do so unto the LORD your God. - Deuteronomy 12:3-4

That, btw, is why the Jews type G_d instead of God - so they do not accidentally erase a Name of God.

And it is why the Jewish mystics refer to God the Creator as Ayn Sof which literally means "no thing." The point is that any time we sincerely use a word to describe God, we reduce Him in our own minds to the limits of our language. Or to put it another way, no mortal words can define God and when we use them that way then we are mentally creating a reduced false image of a 'god' who is not God, an idol.

Another example, though not in the language of words but of art is the beautiful albeit woefully misleading Michaelangelo painting "The Creation of Adam" showing Adam and God touching fingers. It presents God as an old gray-haired man on a cloud. That is not God but a reduction of Him.

Which brings me back to the titles given to creatures in an attempt to reveal Who God IS by description of the creature.

The title "Mother of the Incarnate Word" does not require a footnote in the mind of the hearer because God the Creator's Name is Word and the phrase "mother of the incarnate" further defines Mary, a creature.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men. – John 1:1-4

The title "Mother of God" on the other hand requires a footnote, because taken as a phrase it reduces the Name of God, God, by suggesting that God has a mother whereas God's Name is I AM and Alpha. There is no one before Him.

I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty. - Revelation 1:8

And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you. – Exodus 3:14

Remember the former things of old: for I [am] God, and [there is] none else; [I am] God, and [there is] none like me, - Isaiah 46:9

Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. – John 8:58

As another example, meditate concerning the title Vicar of Christ v. Vicar of God, which evidently Nicholas III used.

So just like admiring the beautiful Michaelangelo painting with a younger requires us to then explain that God is not an old gray-haired man on a cloud, using the title "Mother of God" with a younger requires us to explain that there was no thing and no one and no time before God. Otherwise the younger may walk away with a reduced image of God, a false 'god' of his own imagining.

Good name in man and woman, dear my lord, Is the immediate jewel of their souls: Who steals my purse steals trash; 'tis something, nothing; 'Twas mine, 'tis his, and has been slave to thousands: But he that filches from me my good name Robs me of that which not enriches him And makes me poor indeed. - Shakespeare (Othello, Act III)

Therefore, I prefer the title "Mother of the Incarnate Word" Arius notwithstanding.

God's Name is I AM.

6,498 posted on Wednesday, August 04, 2010 12:13:01 PM by Alamo-Girl

[Quix]

Excellent points.

I find it fascinating . . . purportedly our postings are so empty of all that’s significant, sane, rational etc. . . . yet we get so much flack!

I don’t understand this obsession with what they construe as chaff or less. LOL.

Obviously, there’s some cognitive dissonance going on between some ears.

[Quix]

Your prayers are always much appreciated.

[Deo volente]

“The label

‘Mother of God’

implies, indicates,
ASSERTS ESSENTIALLY
THAT
the Vatican
teaches
that

Christ
100% identically
equals
FATHER GOD.”

________________________________________________________________________
100% WRONG. Zero points for you!

Your synapses need a break so they can refresh themselves on the truth of the Trinity and the Incarnation. Take those Nestorian tomes from your bookshelves and throw them in the trash.

Take your time. Pray and read about it, slowly and calmly.

[marbren]

My point is anything can become an idol. The key is to focus on and only on and put our faith in and only in our Lord Jesus Christ.

The Book of Concord and Lutheran Confessions can also become an idol. The LCMS can become an idol. The church building can become an idol. Our faith can become an idol. The Bible can become an idol. for most people money is an idol. Whatever you put your trust in becomes an idol. Our God is a jealous God. Thou shalt have no other God's before me.

[Quix]

One can be "fully persuaded" yet wrong.
6,508 posted on Wednesday, August 04, 2010 12:27:05 PM by don-o

YEAH!
Proddys
notice
that
demonstrated
a
lot
hereon
by
the
ever-faithful-to-that-standard
Roman Catholics et al

[Mad Dawg]

The label "MOTHER OF GOD" implies, indicates, ASSERTS ESSENTIALLY THAT the Vatican teaches that Christ 100% identically equals FATHER GOD. That's a by now DELIBERATE deception, a falsehood, a seduction, a lie. My doggedly logical synapses CANNOT slice it any other way, given the abundant evidence.

"The Vatican" conforms to the decisions of Ephesus and Chalcedon. This conformity is motivated by a desire to obscure the doctrine of the Trinity which, in its Nicene formulation is proclaimed by us every Sunday and Solemnity?

In any event, the fear of being misunderstood is not a good reason not to speak the truth. Speaking what one does NOT believe is at least as subject to disastrous misunderstanding.

[Quix]

My point is anything can become an idol. The key is to focus on and only on and put our faith in and only in our Lord Jesus Christ.
The Book of Concord and Lutheran Confessions can also become an idol. The LCMS can become an idol. The church building can become an idol. Our faith can become an idol. The Bible can become an idol. for most people money is an idol. Whatever you put your trust in becomes an idol. Our God is a jealous God. Thou shalt have no other God’s before me.

---

INDEED.

[Mad Dawg]

He ends by pronouncing sentence and declaring that the anathematized person is condemned to hell with Satan. The priests reply, “Fiat!” (Let it be done!) and throw down their candles.

Shucks. I NEVER get invited to the fun parties.

[Hegewisch Dupa]

Thank goodness the part about the priest using the Little Orphan Annie Decoder Rings is still a secret!

....oh wait...

[Quix]

I don't give a significant flip about centuries ago meetings on the issue. Such have absolutely no bearing on what the masses around the world understand and think when they hear or see that label.

The issue for me, now, is

the tens of millions of non-RC's in the world who have little to no choice but to

TAKE THE LABEL AT FACE VALUE

THAT IS, THAT IT MEANS THAT

JESUS IS 100% IDENTICAL TO FATHER GOD;

WHICH THE VATICAN HAS TO REALIZE IS TRULY WHAT IS GOING ON WITH THAT LABEL.

FOR THE VATICAN TO REALIZE THAT AND NOT CHANGE THE LABEL IS DELIBERATE FALSEHOOD OR IDIOCY OR BOTH.

[xone]

Therefore, Lutherans today, rejected some of Luther’s beliefs since they were too Catholic.

Lutheranism's doctrines if you will are not based on Luther's beliefs. They are based on Scripture, which is why the two instances referenced were not included. This happened while Luther was still alive. The beliefs referenced were rejected because they didn't have Scriptural warrant. The fact that they were 'too Catholic' is more an indictment of the Catholic view than that of the Lutheran view.

[Deo volente]

You just HAD to go and reveal that, didn’t you!

Now you’ve ruined everything. Don’t you know that the internet is forever?

[xone]

The Book of Concord and Lutheran Confessions can also become an idol. The LCMS can become an idol. The church building can become an idol. Our faith can become an idol. The Bible can become an idol. for most people money is an idol. Whatever you put your trust in becomes an idol. Our God is a jealous God. Thou shalt have no other God's before me.

I don't disagree with you, but I don't see that in our church today.