Note: The Catholic Charismatic Center is a Roman Catholic lay ministry located in, but not directly associated with, the Catholic Diocese of San Jose, California, USA. However well intended or motivated they may be they do not speak for or represent the Catholic Church.

You say to me:
The bible contains all the truth necessary for us to know. You still seem to be torching the same straw man.

But presently no screen name says in post 5651:
There is ONE Bible which contains ALL TRUTH and ONE TEACHER, the Holy Spirit.
which is not what you said. I was dealing with that POV, not yours.

maybe the motel was meant for guests who want every area of their stay to be controlled, monitored, and ruled.

How very unlike the Catholic Church such a motel would be!

The Papal Preacher, Rev. Fr. Raniero Cantalamessa, has written on the topic numerous times since 1986.[15]

The two links you give here: Papal Preacher, and Rev. Fr. Raniero Cantalamessa are both from Wiki and both are invalid links. So are your links on Pope John Paul II.

Your link to Catholic Charismatic is valid. But almost all of the links are invalid. Is there something that you're trying to tell us with this piece of work?

Luther became deadly? How many did he kill? Or did statists claiming to follow his doctrine kill? Same old BS. Just upthread, he was enough of a paragon to be quoted supporting some Catholic doctrine, now he is a killer? Must be Tuesday.

Must be nice to be able to argue both sides against the middle and always declare yourself the winner.

How you reconcile the notion that we rely on the wisdom of men with Peter’s very dubious record and the much worse record of some of the popes a few centuries ago completely escapes me.

When the strictures of the Church are slipped by the individual and they are only ruled by their imaginations, each renegade milkmaid simply thinks up more and more fantastic theologies. Look at the progression from the Reformation (pride and greed), to the Restoration (religious novelty), to Evangelicism (individualism), to Pentecostalism (individual mysticism), to the modern non denominational frenzy (daily inventions of doctrines).

It's a scary world to live outside the Church.That said, there is much work to be done protecting the flock from these errors.

Thank you for the work you are doing ,dear brother

Rome acknowledges the "Body of Christ" as believers from all church denominations who have given their life to Christ.

Yup. Thanks for posting that.

So, if it becomes the literal body and blood of Christ, when does it happen and why doesn’t it look like it?

Not one Catholic has even tried to answer that question yet. They all just keep ignoring it.

I and others have answered you.

Yet you ignore it.

It is really an interesting ring. I’m trying to figure out how it would ‘lay’ on your finger. I need to see one in person, I think. Thanks for showing it to me!

MORE LINKS RE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHARISMATIC RENEWAL INFO--MOSTLY WITHOUT THE POISON OF GROSSLY UNINFORMED TO IGNORANT BIASES:

http://www.nsc-chariscenter.org/ . . . THE RC CHARISMATIC SERVICES CENTER

PAPAL AND BISHOP'S STATEMENTS:

http://www.nsc-chariscenter.org/Statements.asp

Papal and Bishop Statements

.
Homily of his Holiness Benedict XVI St. Peter's Square Saturday, 3 June 2006

Prayer vigil and meeting, Solemnity of Pentecost
Meeting with the ecclesial movements and new communities

Address of His Holiness Benedict XVI to participants in a meeting by the Catholic Fraternity of Charismatic Covenant

Communities and Fellowships Hall of Blessings, Friday, 31 October, 2008

"As I have been able to affirm in other circumstances, the Ecclesial Movements and New Comunities which blossomed after the Second Vatican Council, constitute a unique gift of the Lord and a precious resource for the life of the Church. They should be accepted with trust and valued for the various contributions they place at the service of the common benefit in a an ordered and fruitful way..."

Pontiff Notes Hopes for Charismatic Renewal Vatican City, May 4, 2009

"Benedict XVI is wishing members of the charismatic renewal a revitalized closeness with the crucified and risen Christ. The Pope said this in a telgram signed by his secretary of state, Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone, and sent to the Italian chapter of the Catholic Charismatic Renewal, who were gathered last weekend in their 32nd national assembly in Rimini, Italy."

The Apostolic Letter of his Holiness Pope John Paul II

NOVO MILLENNIO INEUNTE to the Bishops, Clergy and Lay Faithful at the close of the great Jubillee of the Year 2000

Grace for a New Springtime

by the Administrative Committee of the National Conference of Catholic Bishops published on the anniversary of the 30th Anniversary of the Catholic Charismatic Renewal in March of 1997.

YOU TUBE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHARISMATIC RENEWAL DOCUMENTARY:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-QDOcDGDWA

OTHER ARTICLES AT THAT SITE . . . AND OTHER LINKS:

http://www.nsc-chariscenter.org/Resources/other_articles.asp

Resources

OTHER ARTICLES:

Christmas Carol Festival: A New Way to Reach Inactive Catholics by John Boucher in 2008. A program to help reach out to Catholics to return to the Church.

How to Strengthen Ecclesial Maturity in the Catholic Charismatic Renewal by Alan Schreck, Ph.D.This is a fuller version of his article that was originally published in Pentecost Today in the Oct/Nov/Dec 2007 issue p. 4.

Jesus Lives! Day, an evangelistic event that is used as a Kick Off for the Life in the Spirit Seminar.

Norms of the Holy Congregation for the Teaching of the Faith Concerning the Procedures for Judging Presumed Apparitions and Revelations published in 1978 by the Vatican Congregation of the Faith

Praise and Worship Starter Sheet by Fr. Bob Hogan, BBD A sheet for prayer group leaders to help people grow with the prayer of praise. For a full article on Praise and Worship in prayer groups see the Pentecost Today April/May/June 2010 issue.

Ten Steps to Better Worship by Nick Alexander

This great resource helps those looking to lead better Praise and Worship for their parish, prayer group or other ministry. For more information about this a fuller article written by Nick Alexander was orginally published in Pentecost Today Jan/Feb/March 2005 on p 3 and continued to p 13.

Three Times of Intercession for the Outpouring of the Holy Spirit on the Church The Holy Spirit is important in three major
Liturgical Seasons of the year: This brochure lists those times and the special prayers for an outpouring of the Holy Spirit.

Unity Statement

Adopted by the participants in an Ad Hoc Meeting of Leaders in St. Louis, February 23, 1995
Ratified by the participants at the 1997 National Catholic Charismatic Renewal Conference, June 29, 1997
Amended by the participants at the Gathering of National Leadership Groups: Catholic Charismatic Renewal, January 17, 2001

What is the Nature of the Catholic Charismatic Renewal by Charles Whitehead This is an edited version of a talk given to over 700 leaders in the worldwide Catholic Charismatic Renewal on September 19, 2003.

¿Cuál es la naturaleza de la Renovación Católica Carismática? by Charles Whitehead

Year of St. Paul Reflections These are monthly reflections on the life of St. Paul written by the various NSC members in the year from June 2008- June 2009.

A GREAT SET OF ARTICLES AND REPORTS ON THE BEGINNING OF THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHARISMATIC RENEWAL:

http://www.holyspiritinteractive.net/features/charismaticrenewal/

oly Spirit Interactive: The Catholic Charismatic Renewal

The Catholic Charismatic Renewal

Showers of Blessings by Gwen Meharg In February 1967, a group of college students attending a retreat at Duquesne University in Pittsburg, Pennsylvania had a powerful and transforming experience in response to fervent prayer asking God to allow them to experience the grace of both baptism and confirmation. The account of this experience - which came to be known as "baptism in the Spirit" - quickly spread across the college campus and then to other campuses across the United States. This was the beginning of the renewal.

Holy Spirit Interactive brings you the story of the Catholic Charismatic Renewal.

The Renewal and the Church
What it is. And what it isn't.
Frequently Asked Questions
Advice to aspiring (and existing) leaders by Aneel Aranha
What Makes a Christian Charismatic? by Fr. John Hampsch

Problems people have

.

THE RENEWAL AND THE [RCC] CHURCH:

http://www.holyspiritinteractive.net/features/charismaticrenewal/cr_history.asp

Holy Spirit Interactive: The Catholic Charismatic Renewal: The Renewal and the Church

The Renewal and the Church

The charismatic experience, which began at Duquesne in 1967 and caught on campuses across the United States, soon moved beyond colleges and began to have an impact on regular parishes and other Catholic institutions. Loose organisations and networks were formed. Catholic charismatic conferences began to be held, drawing massive crowds. One conference held at Notre Dame campus in South Bend Indiana drew over 30,000 people. It soon caught the attention of the church.

Leon Joseph Suenens, the Cardinal of Malines-Brussels and one of the four moderators of the Second Vatican Council, was one of the first champions of the Charismatic renewal in the Catholic Church. After visiting some of the principal centers he understood "that pentecostal grace was at work, and that it was not a question of a movement - there was no founder, no rule, no precise structure - but the breath of the Spirit, which was vital for many aspects of life and indeed for all movements".

After presenting his findings to Pope Paul VI, he recommended that the Pope invite the Catholic leaders of this Renewal on a pilgrimage to Rome with a view of witnessing to their faith and their faithfulness to the Church.

In the summer of 1975, some 10,000 Catholic charismatics gathered in St. Peter's Basilica. Also present were prominent Protestants who were invited to take part as well, thus giving the movement a moving ecumenical dimension. In his homily, Pope Paul VI called the Charismatic Renewal "the good fortune for the Church and the World" and thereby gave his formal seal of approval to the movement.

Cardinal Suenens was asked to oversee the integration of the Catholic Renewal into the heart of the Church. He accepted the mission. From 1974-1986, he also drafted a series of six articles, the "Malines Documents," which detailed the personalities and ideas he wanted fostered in the Charismatic movement, among them being ecumenism, social action, and the strange phenomenon of "slaying in the spirit."

Encouraged by the leadership of Pope Paul VI and later by John Paul II, many Catholic bishops of the United States, Canada, Mexico, South America, and Europe wrote pastoral statements supporting and encouraging the Renewal.

Vatican II said this about the charisms: "It is not only through the sacraments and Church ministries that the Holy Spirit sanctifies and leads the people of God. He distributes special graces among the faithful of every rank. 'The manifestation of the Spirit is given to everyone for profit' (1Cor.12:7). These charismatic gifts, whether they be the most outstanding or the more simple and widely diffused, are to be received with thanksgiving and consolation, for they are exceedingly suitable and useful for the needs of the Church."

WHAT MAKES A CHRISTIAN CHARISMATIC?

http://www.holyspiritinteractive.net/features/charismaticrenewal/cr_john.asp

Holy Spirit Interactive: The Catholic Charismatic Renewal: What makes a Christian Charismatic?

What makes a Christian Charismatic?

Falsehoods are "sticky" for some people; they can't let go of them. They continue to believe, for instance, that sunbathing is healthful, or that an alcoholic nightcap improves sleep, or that seatbelts are useless or even dangerous, or that the Pope never goes to confession. One such falsehood that some people cling to is the belief that all Christians are "charismatic" by the fact they are baptized with water and living in the state of grace, especially if they have accepted Jesus as their personal Savior. This position is one that confuses three separate spiritual states:

That of a baptized Christian in the state of grace (who is sacramentally and canonically a Christian, "baptized into Christ" (Gal. 3:27);
That of a Christian who is "born-again" ("regenerated"). That is, a Christian who has undergone a kind of "conversion." Or a "metanoia" experience, as the Greek Fathers called it, which involves a knowledge of and commitment to Jesus as one's Lord and personal Savior (Gal. 2:20). It is a state which Pope John Paul II said is lacking in many "sacramentalized" Christians; and
That of a charismatic Christian who has received the baptism in the Spirit as an experience separate from, and usually subsequent to, a "conversion" experience (Titus 3:4-5).

Each of these three spiritual states can be lost or diminished in some way. The first, by mortal sin (1 John 5:16-17). The second, by loss or diminution of an abiding commitment to Jesus as Lord (John 15:6). The third, by not "living by the Spirit" (Gal. 5:16-26). To simplify the problem, this three-fold distinction can be reduced to a two-fold one, namely, the uncompromising distinction between a "pre-charismatic" Christian and a charismatic Christian - a distinction that seems to needle many non-charismatics, and raises the hackles of some theologians whom I love to challenge.

The Pentecost experience of becoming charismatic by being "baptized in the Spirit" (Acts 1:5) is something clearly distinct from and beyond the experience of becoming a Christian by being "baptized into Christ" (Rom. 6:3) by water. The two baptisms have totally different purposes. Water baptism makes one a child of God in a special way, grafting one into the body of Christ (Gal. 3:27 Rom. 6:3), while Spirit baptism gives one charismatic power to be an effective witness (evangelizer) in building the Kingdom (Acts 1:8; Luke 24:48-49).

The distinction between various baptisms (plural) is scriptural and described as an "elementary teaching" of Christianity (Heb. 6:2). All four gospels quote John the Baptist emphasizing that distinction: "I baptize you with water, but he (Jesus) will baptize you with the Holy Spirit." (Matt. 3:11; Mark 1:8; Luke 3:16; John 1:33).

Dissenting theologians claim that it was the Church that corporately received the Holy Spirit at Pentecost, and all Christians partake of that general outpouring-somewhat like a huge vat being water-filled, with many spigots for individuals to draw from the general supply. In this view, the baptism in the Spirit is not an additional experience subsequent to becoming a Christian, but a privilege that everyone experiences by simply being a Christian and thus partaking of the fullness of the Spirit-presence of the Church from the time of water-baptism. If this partaking could be called charismatic, then of course every Christian would be charismatic from the moment of Christian initiation by water baptism. However, this theological theory was disproved by St. Thomas Aquinas, who showed that within an individual, there is a distinction between the "indwelling" of the Spirit (occasioned by water baptism or Christian initiation) and the "infilling" of the Spirit (occasioned by a Pentecostal experience of being baptized in the Spirit).

Jesus also makes the distinction, in a pre-Pentecost discourse with his disciples in John 14:17, by using two separate prepositions: "with" and "in": "The spirit ... lives with you (now) and will be in you (later)." Jesus thus clearly distinguished between two different levels of intimacy by which the Spirit can relate to an individual. The baptisms mentioned in Hebrews 6:2 were referred to by Jesus at the beginning of his public life: in John 3:5 he tells Nicodemus that a person must be "born of water and the Spirit." Then, at the very end of his earthly existence, just before his Ascension, he again distinguishes between the two baptisms: "John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit" (Acts 1:5).

The disciples were already Christians, of course, as shown by the fact that they had already received spiritual life for having "heard his word and believed in the one who sent him" (John 5:24). Jesus had assured them that they were "clean" (Luke 13:10), with their "names written in heaven" (10:20). Furthermore, the resurrected Jesus had breathed upon them, even imparting the Holy Spirit to activate a ministerial gift of forgiving sins (John 20:22-23). Yet he told them to pray for (Luke 11:13) and to wait for (Luke 24:49; Acts 1:4) a subsequent (and therefore separate) grace of the baptism in the Spirit a "few days" after his Ascension (Acts 1:5)--clearly an additional experience beyond the basic Christianity they had been experiencing.

A close study of the Acts of the Apostles shows that the early Christians regarded it as normal and normative for believers to be baptized in the Holy Spirit; hence, in the early Church a pre-charismatic Christian was regarded as a kind of "sub-normal" Christian. This is clear, for instance, in the case of the converted Samaritans, mentioned in Acts 8, who had fulfilled the two requirements for salvation given by Jesus (Mark 16:16): belief and baptism. Yet, when Peter and John arrived in Samaria, they "prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit, because the Holy Spirit had not yet come upon any of them; they had simply been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus." (Acts 8:15-16). They obviously had not received the baptism of the Spirit at the time of their conversion and water baptism. A similar example is seen in Acts 19. Paul found twelve disciples at Ephesus who were believers, and asked them, "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when (or after) you believed?" When they answered in the negative, Paul baptized them. Then, "when Paul placed his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came upon them, and they spoke in tongues and prophesied" (verse 6). If mere believing or being converted carried with it the baptism in the Spirit automatically, then Paul's question would have been meaningless. The Ephesians' baptism in the Holy Spirit was subsequent to (and therefore distinct from) their belief in Christ and also distinct from their water baptism.

While the baptism in the Spirit is always distinct from the conversion experience, it need not necessarily be subsequent to it, as in the case of Cornelius' household, all of whom received the baptism in the Spirit before they were baptized in water (Acts 10:44-48). In recounting this episode at the Council of Jerusalem (Acts 15:7-9), Peter referred to two separate acts: 1) Purifying their hearts by faith (conversion), and 2) Receiving the gift of the Holy Spirit. Paul's baptism in the Spirit at the hands of Ananias came three days after his conversion on the road to Damascus, and just before his water baptism (Acts 9:3-18). Here again, Spirit-baptism is seen as distinct from a conversion experience and distinct from water baptism.

A common misunderstanding is to regard Spirit baptism merely as a one-time isolated event, rather than the beginning of a "growth in the Spirit," with a need for "refilling" periodically (by prayer meetings, etc.). Hence Scripture urges, "Let us not give up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing" (Heb. 10:25). When Peter and John joined in a prayer meeting after being released from prison, they were re-filled by a deepened presence of the Holy Spirit (Acts 4:31). The exact translation of Ephesians 5:18 is not "Be filled with the Spirit," but "Be being filled with the Spirit"-an ongoing receptive experience. Thus, it is clear that the baptism in the Spirit is an experience over and above the experiences of water baptism, the born-again experience, and in general the conversion experience. It adds to the "indwelling" of the Spirit a new kind of presence-an "infilling" that is meant to produce empowerment and growth-a growth in the fruits of the Spirit (Gal. 5:22-23) as well as the gifts of the Spirit (1 Tim. 4:14; 2 Tim. 1:6).

Although Paul found much to criticize among the Corinthian Christians, still he called them "sanctified," and yet "called to be holy" (1 Cor. 1:2). That is, he attributed to them what some theologians call "positional sanctification," and yet he urged them to "progressive sanctification." The growth factor in this "progressive sanctification" is the Holy Spirit himself (I Pet. 1:2; Rom. 13:16), who "helps us in our weakness and ... intercedes for us" (Rom. 8:26). Hence, it follows that those with a deeper relationship with this "Spirit of holiness" (Rom. 1:4) through the baptism in the Spirit have an advantage in opportunities for graces inducing that growth. (1 Th. 3:13; John 7:38-39).

Ultimately, in personal self-evaluation, the matter of the baptism in the Spirit resolves itself into a question. And this question is not, "Do I have all of the Holy Spirit?", but rather, "Does the Holy Spirit have all of me?"

Fr. John Hampsch

PENTECOST TODAY MAGAZING ONLINE DOWNLOADABLE ARCHIVED ISSUES:

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lol! Why do you think it's called Hotel Catholicfornia?

Are you still in the motel? If you are, you MUST be stir-crazy by now!

You sound just like a GARB Baptist.

Who woulda thought.....

... that the Virgin Mary exists from Eve through the OT, through the NT through Revelation.

Well, in some place "types" and in others Mary herself. So yes, wherever the Church is, there are 'types' of Mary.

Norms of the Holy Congregation for the Teaching of the Faith Concerning the Procedures for Judging Presumed Apparitions and Revelations

I was wanting to check this one out, but the link wouldn't allow me. Looks very interesting..

Actually, you slip it over your finger and as you say each prayer, you move the ring around one knob at a time. You start your prayers with God (Nicene or Apostles Creed followed by the Pater Noster) and you finish each set of prayers with God (The Doxology). Rather Christian, if I may say so myself. :)

So yes, wherever the Church is, there are 'types' of Mary.

No doubt, but that still doesn't mean they;re Scriptural.

I think you are far more perceptive . . . fair minded . . . and informed . . . than that sentence would imply, on the face of it.

OK, i get it now...duh! ;)