Testimony of a Former Irish Priest

BereanBeacon.Org ^ | Richard Peter Bennett

[Quix]

The gift of this forum, or one of them, is that it helps us understand the extent of the tragic estrangement from our brothers and sisters.

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AGREED.

[Natural Law]

" Look them up. They litter the internet."

Litter is your area of expertise, but repetitively citing a single source doesn't prove your case.

I have no intention of sifting through the internet for corroboration of your falsehoods when I already have the truth from legitimate sources.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

So I've answered your question. There is one God.

You said you'd answer mine.

Rome teaches that muslims pray to the same God as they do.

Is God Triune or not? Is Christ God or not?

In light of your answers, please explain how muslims and RCs pray to the "same God."

[boatbums]

Thank you for your heart efforts very much. What I see - and I in no way intend to denigrate Mary - is that she as a normal human young woman who was brought up well with a knowledge, respect and love for God and who was part of the blessed kingly bloodline of David. I am sure she was a great child growing up, helpful, obedient, respectful. No information came out from her family pertaining to her sinless nature. I wonder about why since this would be quite extrordinary, wouldn't you think? A toddler that didn't scream and shreik NO at the top of her lungs?

Growing up she never lied, always cleaned her room without being asked, never was hurtful to siblings, always shared her toys, obeyed Mom and Dad about averything? This admittedly unusually well behaved girl must have had some talk about her going on. But there's nada. Someone like this would have been unusual for that time yet no manuscripts or letters anywhere mention this phenomenon. Her family never told anybody about her? It just makes me wonder about the Sinlessness of Mary angle, and why it was so important.

It was obviously very important that she be a virgin and God chose her to be the mother of the Christ. She assented to the angel's pronouncement as scared as she must have been, yet her faith in God was greater than her fear. The tiny little embryo was formed from her ova through the miracle of the incarnation. Within her body that baby developed for nine months and God made sure she was norished and protected. Jesus was born from her body and she was the first to hold him in her arms, kiss him, carress his head and nurse his hungry tummy. She did all the things a loving and caring mother would do and she and Joseph made sure Jesus was well educated and raise in the nurture of the Lord.

She stayed with him until he died and even went to the tomb after he was buried. She remained as one of the disciples waiting for him in the upper room at Pentecost. She truly was a remarkable and faithful woman. One we should all look to as an example of faithfulness.

That Jesus was both divine and human in the same person proved he was Almighty God incarnate - in the flesh. That she was/is the mother of the Son of God, of Jesus Christ, of the incarnate Word who is Jesus Christ is undeniable. She is a human mother of a God-Man. The human part, the flesh and blood part that God chose to indwell was living inside Mary and gave forth from her body. I believe that at no time was the divine nature seperate from the human nature even as that developing embryo/fetus. It was still Him.

But because the Son, Jesus, existed from before all time he never had a beginning. He has always been one with the Father. Mary then as his mother was mother to this incarnate Jesus. Jesus is God and he WAS God before he took upon flesh. A deep subject to contemplate, I agree, but I just don't think the title "Mother of God" suits her. She was the bearer of God in the flesh. Mother of the Incarnate God Jesus Christ.

[Natural Law]

"Rome teaches that muslims pray to the same God as they do."

There is only one triune God. No matter how imperfectly He is described and how imperfectly He is worshiped by Jews, Muslims, Calvinists, Mormons, or Catholics, He is not changed by the error.

All institutions of man are flawed and man himself lacks the ability to fully comprehend His infinite perfection. We all fall short of the Glory of God by matters of degree.

[Deo volente]

Jesus is God and he WAS God before he took upon flesh. A deep subject to contemplate, I agree, but I just don't think the title "Mother of God" suits her. She was the bearer of God in the flesh, Mother of the Incarnate God Jesus Christ.

Be careful, because you've just asserted the Catholic truth about Jesus AND about Mary and expressed it very clearly, except for the opinion that "Mother of God" doesn't suit her.

Yes, she was the Theotokos (in Greek, God-bearer), a title which refers to Mary as the Mother of God. Nestorius didn't want her to be called that, as he tried to separate the two natures of Christ and turn him into two persons.

Some more background, expressed in a far better way than I can do at this late hour (or any hour, for that matter):

http://www.ewtn.com/library/papaldoc/jp2bvm37.htm

By the fourth century, the term Theotókos was frequently used in the East and West. Devotion and theology refer more and more to this term, which had by now become part of the Church's patrimony of faith.

One can therefore understand the great protest movement that arose in the fifth century when Nestorius cast doubt on the correctness of the title "Mother of God". In fact, being inclined to hold that Mary was only the mother of the man Jesus, he maintained that "Mother of Christ" was the only doctrinally correct expression. Nestorius was led to make this error by his difficulty in admitting the unity of Christ's person and by his erroneous interpretation of the distinction between the two natures—divine and human—present in him.

In 431 the Council of Ephesus condemned his theses and, in affirming the subsistence of the divine and human natures in the one person of the Son, proclaimed Mary the Mother of God.

3. Now, the difficulties and objections raised by Nestorius offer us the opportunity to make several useful reflections for correctly understanding and interpreting this title. The expression Theotókos, which literally means, "she who has begotten God", can at first sight seem surprising; in fact it raises the question as to how it is possible for a human creature to give birth to God. The answer of the Church's faith is clear: Mary's divine motherhood refers only to the human begetting of the Son of God but not, however, to his divine birth. The Son of God was eternally begotten of God the Father, and is consubstantial with him. Mary, of course, has no part in this eternal birth. However, the Son of God assumed our human nature 2,000 years ago and was conceived by and born of Mary.

In proclaiming Mary "Mother of God", the Church thus intends to affirm that she is the "Mother of the Incarnate Word, who is God". Her motherhood does not, therefore, extend to all the Trinity, but only to the Second Person, the Son, who, in becoming incarnate, took his human nature from her.

Motherhood is a relationship of person to person: a mother is not only mother of the body or of the physical creature born of her womb, but of the person she begets. Thus having given birth, according to his human nature, to the person of Jesus, who is a divine person, Mary is the Mother of God.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

So do Wiccans pray to the one God imperfectly?

[don-o]

We are dealing with very different views. You all think of the Church as a society of the elect, but we think of it as a hospital for sinners.

That's exactly right. That's what Jesus was teaching in many of His parables and explains why some of the more radical Protestants ignore the four gospels and look to Paul (sola). And they are allowed to "get away" with that deviation of "classic Protestantism" as long at their anti-Catholic litanies continue unabated.

Perhaps the Bullingerites are not so radical after all. Protestant must believe that there is "continuing revelation" going on, so when one of these new teachings (Pentecostalism, dispensationalism, emerging churchism) appears, complete with Bible, they all flock to the latest continuing revelation.

Don't they?

No?

I'm confused. Again

[trisham]

That was illuminating! Thanks!

[Joya]

Post 4444, amen.

[trisham]

Not to mention that laughing at the fact that a marriage ended in divorce is rather odd for a “Christian”.

[Iscool]

Excellent...At every turn, the word of God condemns the Catholic religion...

[trisham]

What I note is that when we make an argument from scripture it is met with ridicule, but not with a counter-argument.

We are dealing with very different views. You all think of the Church as a society of the elect, but we think of it as a hospital for sinners. You all trust God, but want it all in writing; we throw ourselves on God's mercy every day. You all claim that anyone can dope out the message of salvation from the Scriptures alone; we admit that we can't do it all by ourselves and that we need each other to make the fullness of the Body in which different members have different functions.

Because of these widely varying views, dealing with one another is like dealing with folks from a very different culture.

The cultures are so different that you can scarcely understand what we think. Most of your accusations and charges go right by us because they have nothing to do with our lives and our beliefs.

We acknowledge you all as brethren, but you treat us with scorn. I have read the Letter to Diognetus so I am prepared to feel like a stranger and foreigner among you. But I cannot fail to notice that my main impression in dealing with non-Catholics is that they have no idea what Catholicism is.

You all don't even know what nominalism is, and you are slaves to it. You consider yourselves spiritual, but you are materialistic, not in your values but in your thinking, as your attempts to argue against transubstantiation indicate. Part of the tragedy of the so-called "Reformation" is that it cut Christians loose from their background and cast them adrift in time and thought.

They end up in Montanist ecstasy, in Manichean contempt for creation,and in gnostic schemes and calendars.

The situation and the estrangement, call for deliberate and meticulous courtesy and care. But these are difficult and "refudiated." More's the pity.

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I am reposting the above because it is (imho) one of the most thoughtful, heartfelt and honest attempts to communicate with our Protestant friends.

I most sincerely hope that it is read and understood by those who may wish to know what many Catholics feel when we encounter the kind of antagonism that is found daily here on the Religion forum. May God bless us all.

[Uri’el-2012]

I am not going to entertain any discussion with you until you reel back in your false assertion (there is apparently a prohibition against using the “L” word) about me crowing about my degrees. I have never mentioned them on the Religion Forum.

You are right but only if you nuance your words.

As for calling me a LIAR I don't think
that is acceptable on the RF.

I have a freepmail from you crowing
about your advanced theological degrees.

Actually it more than crowing,
it was a feeble attempt to intimidate.

Your constant anti-semitism demonstrate
to all who have eyes to see that you hate Jews.

You fail to comprehend and fully appreciate
that YHvH chose to tabernacle as a Jew forever.

Yah'shua was, is and will return to rule and reign
the world for a thousand years from Jerusalem
on the throne of his father King David.

Have a wonderful journey on the wide road.

You should be seeking the narrow way
to hear the voice of the Roeh Israel.

shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach

[Iscool]

Show me the Assumption of Mary in Scripture.

Show me in Scripture where Scripture is the only objective standard of proof. It is pretty disingenuous that Protestants continue to demand that Catholics adopt the heresy of Sola Scriptura in order to engage in a discussion or debate but refuse to apply the same standard to their conditions for debate.

Reasonable thought, if you are a Catholic, a Mormon, an Izlamaniac...They offer the same argument...

In fact, the Mormons and muzlims seem to be more legitimate...They make the claim to have revelation directly from God...All you guys have are some alleged revelation from the mother of Jesus and groups of men getting together to decide dogma for your religion...

We may have the scripture 'only' but we can be sure it is 100% God breathed...

[MarkBsnr]

for those with even a hint of a semblance of a clue, that will always be funny.

Charming guy with guitar: I gave my love a cherry / That had no stone / I gave my love a chicken / That had no bones / I gave my love a story / That had no end / I gave my...

Bluto: [grabs the guitar and smashes it against the wall] Sorry.

D-Day: [enters with a bruised and bloodied Otter] I found him after he called me from a phone on the side of the road outside of town.
Boon: [to Otter] Holy sh**! What happened to you? You look grotesqe.
Otter: Some of the Omegas jumped me and did a little dancing on my face.
Bluto: Who was it?
Otter: It was Greggie and Douggie... and some of the other Calvin youth.
Boon: Why? What'd you do?
Otter: That's just it... I don't know. They're just predestined, I guess.

[MarkBsnr]

Learn the rules and stop resenting them.

Didn't I see you in Animal House with Dean Wormer?

[Uri’el-2012]

U-2012>What is the point of your question about "kepha"

Well you obviously have more than average knowledge about Semitic tongues. And you obviously disagree with thinking of Simon bar Jonah being thought of as some kind of rock. So I was trying to get a grip on your thinking. And it certainly seems that Jesus called Simon Kepha(s). So I was starting at the beginning in hopes of understanding your thinking on this issue. I expected we would reach a point of disagreement, but I didn't know where that point was.

Again what is your point ?

Did you not understand nor
comprehend the information that
I provided as a word study on "rock"??

shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach

[metmom]

Must be.

Has to if Scripture isn’t enough. If it isn’t enough it must be added to.

And then they decide that they’re the ones who are the oracle of God for the world. Anyone who’s arguing with them then is arguing with God.

How convenient

[MarkBsnr]

I gave my love a Calvin, that had no stone
I gave my love a Calvin, that had no bones
I gave my love a Calvin, that had no end
I gave my love a Calvin, that was pre-des-tined...