Testimony of a Former Irish Priest

BereanBeacon.Org ^ | Richard Peter Bennett

[cantabile]

If someone claims to be an expert on Chihauhuas and then proceeds to tell you they're the size of Great Danes, it's fair to ask if he might possibly not know as much about Chihauhuas as he claims. Is it proof? That depends on what standard of proof you're requiring. There are people in this world who, no matter how much evidence is presented to them will persist in claiming that we never put a man on the moon. Nothing will prove to them otherwise. People with common sense think those folks are fruitcakes. So yes, it's possible that Bennett is not outright lying about his background - he could be nuts, for example - but in any event he seems to not know fundamental, simple things anyone who had the experience he claims to have had could reasonably be expected to know.

The formal name for the Dominicans is the "Order of Preachers", and perhaps their most famous member is St. Thomas Aquinas. They have a friendly rivalry with the Benedictines, who are monks, and as such are quite clear that they are, by contrast, friars. Bennett seems not to know that. Moreover, he seems not to know much about what St. Thomas treated of in the Summa, which directly addresses some of the theological issues he raises. As a Dominican, he would have studied the Summa and certainly know enough not to mis-state what the Catholic Church actually teaches. In other words, he might have disagreed with St. Thomas' arguments, but at least he would have known what the issues actually are, rather than what he says they are.

In other cases, he could have straightened himself out on the issues by a purusal of the Catechism, which any reasonably well-educated Catholic - certainly a priest - would have done. But the evidence is quite otherwise.

Consider as well his remarks on the Breviary, and compare them with the actual text to be found at the website I linked. Draw your own conclusions on the accuracy of his statements.

Something's wrong here. I don't know exactly what, and charity prevents me from speculating what's actually going on, especially as I don't know the man. But his statements are typical inaccurate Protestant boilerplate, guaranteed to edify his audience of Protestants who aren't too fond of the Catholic Church. He certainly has not refrained from "degrading the Catholic Church", so a reasonably well-educated Catholic audience wouldn't be taken in by this essay. Sorry, but the guy's ultimately indefensible.

[caww]

I realize you once held certain fundamental beliefs...and like others before you the path is long which you follow...but they generally do come back. Though you are certainly free to not as well.

Yes, “the medicine of immortality” has a nice mysterious ring to it doesn’t it. Makes people feel really special I’m certain...for those that need that.

Well, for me Christ’s finished work is enough for me because it was enough for Him. And I will remember that and honor that work in communion.. I will never see this as some mysterious work man has determined is a part of His finished work... It is not required nor desired to take communion in the way the catholic church presents it.

[narses]

“I’ve already told you the kind of church I attend.”

Right.

Why are you ducking my other questions?

Does the place you call “church” have a clergy?

[metmom]

http://www.vatican.va/archive/catechism/p123a9p3.htm

“Outside the Church there is no salvation”

846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers?335 Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:

Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.336

847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:

Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.337

But Muslims are cut some slack as someone else pointed out upthread.

841 The Church’s relationship with the Muslims. “The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day.”330

In first place? Before Jews? Before Protestants? Before Hindus? Before anyone else?

The muslim god, Allah, is merciful? The same God as the God of the Jews and Christians? Really? Who knew?

The same muslims who the Catholic church rightly fought in the Crusades who are hell bent on destroying Christianity and western civilization? Those muslims in first place?

[narses]

Why can we NOT ask the departed to pray for us?

[Deo volente]

Outstanding post...and bookmarked!

[DBeers]

His validity as is his fame seems rooted in Catholicism.

Whether it is his disagreement with the Church or his having been a member of the Church I would say neither validates anything. Without mention of the Church what would he be?

Truth is not so relatively derived. This Bennett in general claims the Church is not authoritative and in doing so by default implies he is. Yet again another reformer and another cult blooms...

[narses]

“And I think “they” should continue to refuse to identify their particular “denomination”.”

Good, so obfuscation becomes a virtue then, right?

And the lies this thread is built on, should they continue to embrace those as well?

[lastchance]

And we will be nice and not mention the whole practice of Lecto Divina. Since this so called priest had no idea that one could pray using the Scriptures.

Anyone else want to play spot the malarky?

[count-your-change]

What happened to “no one comes to the Father except through me”??

[Legatus]

St. Paul tells us that when pagans observed the Christian community, their response was: "See how they love one another." When I look at this forum, my reaction is "What the hell is wrong with these people?"

Amen.

There are however, several items of the original article that seem ridiculous to me. What jumped out most was "Trying to earn Salvation" and "merit", these are bedrock claims against Catholicism made by Protestants and my mind boggles whenever I see them because they are so blatantly false. Seeing a priest make those claims just makes me suspicious.

It makes me suspicious because a priest before the liturgical changes would have said "not counting our merits, but freely granting us pardon" every day when he said Mass. Even after the new missal was introduced he would have said "do not consider what we truly deserve but grant us Your forgiveness".

I prefer the old usage because it explicitly gives the lie to this idea that Catholics believe we merit salvation or that we can earn what is freely granted.

Now, if I, a mere adult convert can pick up on this after a short period of attending Mass how can a priest excuse himself who says Mass daily? He may be going after low hanging fruit or trying to gain credibility with anti-Catholics but he must know that inserting this "earning" stuff must throw up red flags to any Catholic who's actually paying attention. His entire presentation of Catholic thinking on salvation is a stereotype, why would he do that if he actually wanted to speak to Catholics?

But never mind all that because there was one thing he wrote that really did ring true. He nailed something when he wrote that the reason he was insulted in the streets of Rome "was not because I stood for Christ as the early Christians did but because they saw in me the Roman Catholic system."

I was having exactly that conversation with a priest friend last week when talking about the press coverage and the hatred of the world against the Church. "Don't you wish they were attacking us because of Christ?" I asked. Our Lord doesn't even begin to enter into it because we've done such a horrible job. I don't care about the witness of the various protestantisms, it doesn't matter what their ratio of sexual immorality is, and the public schools aren't worth using as a defense either. Their failures aren't the issue, OUR failure is.

Humanly speaking the Church stands in ruins, her people are uncatechised, her priests are depraved, she has been abandoned by everyone who stood under her protection during the good times. In fact, one could draw a very telling comparison at this time to the Passion of Our Lord. It is Friday for the Church and it is very difficult to call it Good, only in the hope of Sunday can we remain faithful.

That wasn't at all what I intended when I started replying but there it is.

[small voice in the wilderness]

I don't think you get it, narses. Let me tell you what we DON'T have. We don't have priests, confession, mass, prayers for the dead, works as part of our salvation, or doctrines of men, tradition, or a Pope, a sovereign state, an army, ambassadors, nuns, Eucharist, Saints to pray to, Mary to intercede for us, keys to any kingdom, holy water, or our sights on Jerusalem, gold icons, bones of the dead, relics, tears of saints, visions of anything, or miracles of healed lepers or vexed spirits being exorcised from the unfortunate.

We have Bibles, pastor-teachers, study in the Word, and prayers. It's not a church that will ever be powerful or wealthy, in man's world. How powerful or wealthy can it become when it teaches that salvation is a free gift from God, the finished work of Christ is complete, and your salvation is secure? There is no one to scare with nonsense about salvation processes and journeys in the church I attend. There is no money to pay for purgatory victims, since it doesn't exist. There are no golden monuments to men to be built, as WE are the temple of God, there are no arguments resulting in endless meetings about what we believe, since we simply believe the Word of God as our final authority. We don't need men telling us what God has said, as we are taught to read the Bible ourselves knowing that the Holy Spirit is guiding us in His Truth. We don't need incense burning, candles lit, or mystical experiences to understand the riches of God's Grace toward us who believe. We don't feel the need to pay to pray as we understand God's meaning of My Grace is sufficient for thee. We will never be wealthy or powerful on this earth. But our conversation is in the heavenlies, where our riches are stored and where our Saviour sits at the right hand of God until such time as He returns in the air to bring the Church the Body of Christ to Himself. Until that time, we stand ready in season, and out, to spread the Good News of the Grace of God.

[caww]

As mentioned prior I do not get caught up in that which catholics feel significant to a mans testimony..and which generally generate division and discord. Rather this former Priests Testimony is very clear that He is no longer bound to the catholic faith, Pope, nor their requirements of Him. Rather he, after careful time and study of the scriptures, over many years, determined what he was practicing as a Priest in the catholic church, was not in accordance with the teachings of scripture.....thereafter He gave His life to Christ and is currently in the work Christ has called Him to.

Why would He feel the need to “straighten himself out” as it is quite apparent he was doing just that.

You have stated “something is wrong here” when in reality it is a hard thing for any catholic to believe this mans testimony. You say you “don't know what it is” but some will continue to dig until they find something. You say you “don't know the man”.......And so in brief you don't know what's wrong, you don't know what it is, and you don't know the man.

But you see This former Priest knew something was wrong and found out what it was...and He discovered the man Christ wanted Him to be from His written word....

.....The “Proof” He was looking for He found....”The sufficiency of Christ and Christ alone”.

[metmom]

The mods have already spoken on the propriety of harassing one about what particualr denomination they belong to.

http://209.157.64.201/focus/religion/2503880/posts?page=1471#1471

In cases where there are only a few churches of a particular denomination in a city or area, knowing the particular denomination and a FReeper’s general geographic area, could lead to figuring out where he specifically goes to church, risking compromising his screen name. Demanding that kind of information is more equivalent to demanding to know which particular parish in a city a FRoman Catholic belongs to.

You raise a perfectly valid point, bb. No matter what the denomination of the church, seminary the pastor attended, ordination process, levels of accountability, doctrinal position and fidelity to it that a church has, if it’s not Catholic, it’s not good enough. Never was, never will be.

Knowing specific denominations and doctrines is pretty much irrelevant because the fact that it’s not Catholic is enough to condemn it and all in it.

Why should we play your game, narses? We answer questions just to be told that we’re wrong? We already know what answer the Catholic church has for us, and if we cared, we’d still be going to the Catholic church. All the credentials in the world wouldn’t be enough to satisfy a Catholic, on the basis of them not being Catholic alone.

But we’ve found the truth and the truth has set us free. It’s set us free from the condemnation that is so pervasive in Catholicism. It’s set us free from obeying all kinds of rules and regulations. It’s set us free from forever striving to be good enough to try to earn our salvation and always being afraid that we’re not good enough and not going to make it.

[lastchance]

There are also much more plausible stories of those who have become Protestants. Stories that don’t embellish or distort fact in order to paint the Catholic Church and Catholics as tools of the Anti Christ.

I understand how one can come to disbelieve certain Catholic teachings and become a Protestant. I don’t understand lies about what the Church truly teaches or practices.

If you say you left because you could no longer believe that Mary was conceived without sin or that Christ is truly present in the Eucharist or that there is a Purgatory. O.K. I get that. And I respect one for finding a denomination where their doubts will no longer hold them back from serving God.

But spout some nonsense about Catholics not reading the Bible or Catholics believing you can earn your way into heaven or worshipping Mary or not understanding that Christ died on the Cross for our sins or that the Mass is a perpetual sacrifice (the same one that was offered at Calvary, but in an unbloody manner). Then I don’t have patience for your nonsense and I begin to seriously question your reasons for leaving.

[boatbums]

I’m with you on this one, SVITW. Just looking at that gunk turns my stomach! Canned cream of mushroom soup on just about ANYTHING is gross but paired with canned green beans and the canned fried onions - just ick!!!

[lastchance]

Everytime we try the pages just burn us.

[metmom]

Traditiooonnnnn......

[caww]

It would be refreshing to have discussion rather than see the carrying out of the same ol’ tactics so easily seen thru.

I’ll repeat...The body of Christ is the body of believers in Christ no matter the place they choose to worship...and there are some in the catholic church as well as yes those we may not imagine it would be so. People can be mislead and or even if they are aware of wrongfullness in the churcch they attend they remain non-the-less for various reasons. The point is wherever Believers in Christ..who have accepted His finished work on their behalf are...they are part of the body. The Pope even said as much.

[Quix]

Well put. imho.

Thx.