Posted on 07/18/2010 6:04:05 AM PDT by Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus
I was just thinking about this question last night. Is there some "official" list, and exhaustive, of who are considered "Church Fathers"? I have seen some references to some with their quotes and then in another place these very same people are called heretics. It is confusing. Since you seem to be very knowledgeable about history, do you have this list? Does it exist? Thanks!
Okay, NOW I’m scared. You’re beginning to make sense ...
;-)
But I'll repent and check it out further.
The propensity to provide pretty platitudes predicts the poverty of ones premises.
So true...
INDEED:
You have a complete misunderstanding of the discourse...Peter was singled out...Peter was not given any primacy...Peter was the ‘rebel rouser’ in the group of Apostles but he was still in the same boat as the others...He may have been more agressive but as we see in the scriptures, Peter had no more authority than any one else...
Secondly and very importantly, Peter and the rest of the Apostles were not given the keys to the church...Peter was given no authority to govern the church on earth...
They were given the keys to the Kingdom of Heaven, which is NOT the church...The Kingdom of Heaven is the literal, physical Kingdom where Jesus will sit on a Throne and rule with an iron rod...
Peter and the rest were commissioned to go to Jews to preach...NOT Gentiles...
Therefore, while Peter was a rock; he was a far smaller rock than Jesus but a rock just the same...
Peter would be the rock of the Apostles that were sent to minister to the Jews...The Jew were are still are a very special group of People to God...
The reason you guys don’t get this is because you don’t believe in the restoration of Israel...You falsely believe that you are the New Israel...
So Peter and the rest of the Apostle go out into the world, but are assigned to stay in Jerusalem until Jesus establishes His church...
Jesus then picks ANOTHER Apostle to start His Christian, Gentile church...Built on the huge rock, Jesus...Jesus chose the Apostle Paul...And Paul’s message from Jesus is totally astounding...
Paul teaches the mystery of the beginning of the church, the Gospel of the Grace of God, the Kingdom of God which is God within you and it winds up with the Rapture of the church...The church is gone off the face of the earth...But is God done??? Absolutely not...And what of the original Apostles???
Peter was given the keys of the Kingdom of Heaven...After the church leaves the face of the earth, the majority of the people (that are still alive) are still living on earth...What of them??? The church is gone...The Holy Spirit is gone...The Gospel of the Grace of God is gone...
Not only did Peter and the Apostles teach of this time period, God had it recorded as the scriptures so those folks still living after the church was gone, has scripture to guide them as well...
And that’s where the Gospels, the book of James, Hebrews, the books of Peter and the later books of John come into play...These books will lead God’s people after the church is gone...
Doesn’t matter that you don’t believe it...That’s the way it is regardless of your belief...
Now there you go again...Adding words to God's scripture to justify your religion...
Jesus did not tell them to transform the bread and wine...
And there's good reason for that...That's because the bread and wine never did get changed into anything else...
So you are manning the special John Calvin assistant to the helper 3rd class, temporary, self appointed hall monitor chair today? Perhaps you should post YOPIRFR (Your Own Personal Interpretation of Religion Forum Rules) so that I can compare it to the other volunteer teachers helpers who step up from time to time to chastize uppity Catholics and try to see how your "admonishment" of me isn't itself a violation of the very rule you are whining about.
In which regard?
I think there was right much syncretism in the last century BC — with a Jewish house in, I think, Alexandria with the zodiac done out on a mosaic floor.
That depends alot whose "zodiac" it is.
LOL! funny. I got lost in it! It's a really interesting site to me! Glad I went looking!
The error is Rome's...
Thank you, Alamo-Girl.
AMEN! AMEN! AMEN!
And, let’s not forget “Bloody Mary” Tudor.
Like medical and legal research, it is best to leave theological research and the resulting conclusions to those properly educated in the field. Folksy and down home are probably OK for cooking and mobile home decoration, but you really ought to be a little suspicious of historical and theological research that exactly confirms your preclusions. To paraphrase Shakespeare; The fault, Dear Dr. lies not in Rome, but in yourselves that you are wrong.
Peoples’ premises predictably prove poor, probably precisely per preoccupation pertaining pretend primacy. Plainly puffed public power purchases portend paucity.
You win. :)
Because that isn't what it says... Peter's a stone in the wall (the first of the stones, but a stone, none the less).
and what was conferred, was conferred to EACH stone singly.
Jesus told his apostles, Luke 10:16 “The one who listens to you listens to Me, and the one who rejects you rejects Me; and he who rejects Me rejects the One who sent Me.”
So what?
He also gave them the power to forgive sins or NOT to forgive them: John 20:23 “Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them; and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained.”
Pretty much the same as any Christian.
He commanded them to consecrate the bread and wine and transform them into His Body and Blood, just as He did at the Last Supper: Luke 22:19 “Do this for a commemoration of Me.”
No, He did *not*.
He gave them the Great Commission to baptize and teach in His name: Matthew 28:19 “Go, therefore, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the holy Spirit, ; teaching them to observe all things I have commanded you.”
And so do we all.
This visible Church is called by St. Paul: 1 Timothy 3:15 ...the Church, the pillar and foundation of the truth.
... And the OT says the truth is the Torah... So the passage above cannot apply the way you'd like it to, unless the Romish church has suddenly become aware of the OT...
Why would Jesus do all these things if he merely intended to establish a “direct”, person-to-person access to the Father without any intermediary on Earth?
The Spirit is His intermediary. No other is necessary.
I’m not saying that’s not also available to a Christian (praying to the Father and asking Him for anything in Jesus’ name. e.g.), but it’s certainly not all there is to Christ’s mission. Not by a long shot.
Sure it is.
Wow, I guess the shoe DOES fit. The RM tells us to avoid using the PERSONAL pronoun “you” precisely because it makes the post about another Freeper. I don’t like pinging him to threads unnecessarily but if we need to, I can.
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