Posted on 07/18/2010 6:04:05 AM PDT by Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus
That is because Protestants do not see the Church as a separate and subservient entity; the bride of Christ, but rather a peer or embodiment of Christ.
It’s just too funny that you are defending Romanists as Augustinian when a True Orthodox (TO) would be claiming that Romanists are too Augustinian.
Must be the incense thing.
I do not see the church as you do..that is correct. ...rather as a body of believers where Christ Jesus is central to their life and understanding. In fact we as believers reflect Christ to an unsaved world as we allow Him to live His life thru us. We walk by faith.
What ever are you talking about? I basically attack the false teaching of sola scriptura. How did St Augustine get in?
The foundation of my house is found in the ground, in Albemarle county. The foundation of my house is neither the ground nor Albemarle county.
IF I said (as I just did) the foundation of my house is found in the ground, and somebody said, "Are you saying your house's foundation is the ground?" you'd think he was being silly.
Yet if I say that this honorific statement is appropriate to Mary because Jesus was found in her - literally so for 9 months, give or take, I am asked to clarify that I do not think that she IN which the foundation is found is herself the foundation. And then, as like as not, i will be accused of rationalizing because I am saying something my accuser never thought of before, in his haste to condemn what he thinks is mariolatry..
It seems that despite the councils of Ephesus and Chalcedon, many non-Catholics balk at calling Mary the Theotokos -"Mother of God." What's quite understandable about that is that it is am amazing thing to say. The whole Incarnation, the whole work of Christ is more mind-boggling the more one thinks about it.
But, when a big wave comes in, some body surfers run for shore. Others rejoice to be lifted up and swept in by the big wave.
We rejoice to think that a mere creature, herself begotten in a bed, was deemed and made fit by Grace to be the new Ark of the New Covenant, the New Jerusalem in which God Himself was pleased to dwell, the New Dawn heralding the coming of the Light far greater than herself.... and so on.
We see how the beautiful can produce or lead to or 'announce' something even more beautiful, as the beautiful love between husband and wife produces (not without a critical assist from God) a new soul, a new candidate for redemption.
And it gives us delight, we think fitting delight, to find new ways to express this wonderful, generous, miraculous truth.
Because never in a birth about which people rejoice did a mother bring a head to birth without also presenting the body as well, so we think of Mary as our mother, because we comprise the Body of Which Jesus is the Head.
As I thank my wife for her part in producing our daughter, we thank Mary for her part in producing our Savior.
It is a great wave which seems to spend a long time at it's apex, so that we can enjoy for centuries the delight in the gift of God that His son would be one born of women
...
...
Now, will you tell me that Jesus meant himself to be taken literally and exactly when He, born of woman, said no one born of woman was greater than John the Baptist?
The Protestant “reformers” threw out seven books of the Bible. Martin Luther even threw out the letter of St. James for awhile, calling it an “epistle of straw”, because he didn’t like the verse, “faith without works is dead.”
Where did the “reformers” get the authority to discard books of the Bible?
What Bible are you using? If you’re not using the Catholic Bible, you’re missing seven inspired books.
http://www.cathtruth.com/catholicbible/cathprot.htm
And yet she was born of woman. But when you make things up, there is no limit to it. While Jesus says this of John the Baptist, no similar mention from Him on the unique status of His mother, anywhere. Yep, lots of Scripture in Catholicism.
. . . IT IS WRITTEN
. . . IT IS WRITTEN
. . . IT IS WRITTEN
Does't that make Yah'shua Sola Scriptura ?
shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach
Good discussion of Matthew 11:11 at this link:
http://ericsammons.com/blog/2010/03/08/is-john-the-baptist-greater-than-mary/
DooD, lay off the incense a little bit. Your initial post to me was in reply to a post I made about Augustine and the Pelegian heresy. (Augustine wrote against the Pelegians!)
Try to stay focused, man.
My understanding is some in the catholic church still believe that salvation is only thru the catholic church...others in Rome seem to acknowledge Christians are indeed of varying faiths outside the catholic church itself.. So I would guess it would depend on who they might choose to listen to.
That's the Old English form of "Jello."
Sheesh. You guys spend too much time on Latin...
: )
Of course there is, but Catholics are not theologically and spiritually self impoverished by concluding that Scripture is the entire revealed Word of God.
You're kidding, right?
Of course you would say if I am not using a Catholic Bible I’m ‘missing’ something. I am quite aware of the “other” books of which have nothing of value to them which is not already in the Bible we have today as it is. Although some of those get pretty farfetched in fairytale substance IMO. Enoch comes to mind and is used as reference for many cults to support their far fetched beliefs of aliens and or the spirit world.
Thang djou berry mudge.
Jesus was born of a woman, too. Is he saying John the Baptist is greater than He is? If so, that makes John greater than God, which is absurd.
Jesus goes on to say, in the same sentence, that the least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than John. So how do you reconcile that with what He had just said about John?
This Bible interpretation stuff can get pretty tricky when you go it alone!
to which don-o responded
I was not aware that this had happened. Please supply supporting evidence.
Did I miss your reply and your supporting evidence? If so, please forgive me and reference the post containing same. Thank you.
And, incense is good for you.
There's the money shot, right there... Did A-N-Y-O-N-E scrape and bow before Mary? Did anyone pray to those beyond the grave? Did anyone pray to angels?
Nope. It ain't there.
Well, I thought there was a pretty good non-Catholic literature on non-petitionary prayer, but it didn’t seem we were getting any mention of the “chillin’ with the Love” type of prayer, which suggested that there might be a weak “pneumatology of prayer” thing goin’ down.
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