On intemperate and indiscreet zeal. (The Primary Fault of many Religion Forum posters)

Various | Various | Various

[TigersEye]

Macro-neurotic? No lentils. Pleeeeease! no lentils. I gave up lentils for Lent.

[ArrogantBustard]

I wrote:

" And ... what? An ill considered interpretation of that passage has resulted in the competing fray of contradictions. Would you simply have our hypothetical "third party" add his voice to the babble? Again, how is he to judge? By offensiveness? By some other means?

Please, be specific. "

I believe it's fairly obvious that I'm inviting you to offer your opinion on the topic. I also think it's fairly obvious that I'm not in doubt as to what my beliefs are, but rather that I'm entirely ignorant of what your beliefs are. Please don't make the mistake of assuming that I have never given this matter any consideration.

[r9etb]

Maybe Just a beggar showing others where to find the bread. We are all of us sinners saved by grace

True, we are all sinners. But some sinners are called to be teachers, and as such are held to higher standards. (James 3)

They won't get a pass for being jerks, any more than Moses did.

[Godzilla]

In WNY or southern Ont ,,it is malt vinegar and maybe ketchup too..but definitely the vinegar

Oooooooo (shudder), need to pray the demons from that area. ;P

[RnMomof7]

Nonsense. In John 6, Christ delivered His message in a completely inoffensive manner ... which is more than can be said of many folk on pseudonymous internet forums. If you wish to find examples of Christ delivering His message in an ascerbic manner, you'll have to look elsewhere

Then why did He ask if it offended them? Why did some of his disciples walk away... Jesus was very offensive to the traditionalists ..that is why they hung him

[reaganaut]

I think it’s fairly obvious that your excerpt of what I wrote changes its meaning dramatically. I think it’s fairly obvious that distorting the meaning of what somebody else wrote is poor behaviour, and reflects very badly on the distorter.

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oh brother. You extrapolated all of that and make accusations against me from the fact I left out ‘in john 6’. Wow. Honestly, I didn’t read your post clear enough and your statement implied that Jesus ALWAYS preached in an inoffensive manner, which is NOT the case. I’m not sure what your beef is against me, but it is not my fault that Mormons are offended by my message.

It does appear that you are trying to bait me into saying something ‘anti-Catholic’. If that is the case, it won’t work, as I have no ill will towards Catholics. I am even allowed on Catholic Caucus threads here on FR.

[r9etb]

This “trendy little epithet” that you so cheekily ignore was given to Paul, by Christ. It gets you on the other side of the Cross.

And Jesus went throughout all the cities and villages, teaching in their synagogues and proclaiming the gospel of the kingdom and healing every disease and every affliction. (Matt. 9:35)

You seem to be applying "Gospel of the Kingdom" to the godless Catholics.... perhaps I am mistaken in that perception?

[ArrogantBustard]

The problem being, of course, that what the Bible says, is not always clear -- well-meaning people disagree, often vehemently, over the meaning and application of this or that passage of Scripture

Right ... and now we have the competing clamour of contradictory opinions of Scripture.

What criteria do you propose, for deciding between those different points of view?

I believe that disputes are to be submitted to the Church (as is recorded in the Acts of the Apostles).I believe that Christ established a visible Church for many reasons, one of which is dispute resolution.

I'll add that one of the first disputes resolved by the Church was the question: "What is Scripture?"

I believe that NONE of us here on this forum is gifted to infallibly interpret Scripture or inerrantly determine doctrine ... and that therefore we should all bring humility to the table when we come to discuss or debate.

[r9etb]

Very well said.

[reaganaut]

Someone is going to find a way to be “offended”.

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Very true, SZ.

[RnMomof7]

I minister to the LDS, those are the fish I fry. Most of my friends are of various denoms (even the flying inmans here) and we all consider ourselves brothers and sisters in Christ, regardless of our differing denominations.

We are held together by the cross of Christ ..Not by laws or traditions .. John 1 11He came unto his own, and his own received him not. 12But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

It is Christ that has made us brothers and sisters ..

[Mad Dawg]

I think Saint Paul says that he went to great lengths to make himself 'hearable' to those to whom he preached.

It may be, indeed it certainly is, that if we preach the Gospel we will meet with quite astonishing negative reactions. But that does not excuse being offensive either deliberately or carelessly. And to consider all negative responses as indications that one is speaking the truth is logically ridiculous and spiritually perilous.

Since a major issue in the Corinthian Church was division as people went off after different teachers, all or many of whom attracted adherents by claiming authority based on wisdom and/or charisms, one might reasonably view I Cor 13 as a reminder that if the claimed gifts or abilities result in division, one ought at least to check to see if the supreme charism and virtue might need a little more cultivation.

I was thinking the other day of two Christians.
-- One spent his life thinking great thoughts and making great arguments. But he never shared his thinking with anyone.
--The other spent his time proclaiming the Gospel, but with such venom and glee at the discomfiture of others that soon no one listened any more.

In my mind, the second is worse, because he drove people away from the saving truth, while at least the first one had no effect on others. But neither did a whole lot in the making disciples of all nations business.

[small voice in the wilderness]

I am not applying anything. It's YOUR teachings of the Catholic Church that states she alone hold the keys of the kingdom and has the power to retain or remit sins. It's the Gospel of the Kingdom that YOUR Church believes and teaches.

Are you denying this? Because I don't understand your point if you are confused on which Gospel your Church believes.

[BunnySlippers]

I was called a “racist” on an Apple thread a few days ago. :)

[reaganaut]

Look around what passes for Christendom these days, and you’ll find numerous contradictory answers to that question. How is a third party to distinguish one from another, to find the “correct” message of the Bible in the competing fray of contradictions?

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No, there isn’t. There are relatively FEW passage that Christians disagree on. The vast majority of disagreement is among the pseudo-Christian groups (like the Restorationists) who take verses out of context to support unbiblical doctrines.

Context determines what a passage means and is how one finds out the ‘correct’ interpretation of MOST verse. Also, the creeds are good guidlines of doctrine. If it isn’t creedal then a red flag should go up and most Christian groups agree with the creeds.

[RnMomof7]

It is WONDERFUL !!!

[SZonian]

Boardwalk fries in NJ or Delaware give you the option of mayo or malt vinegar.

Of course you could behave like a tourist heathen and ask for ketchup/catsup or whatever that stuff is.

I rarely, if ever, eat fries with ketchup anymore after eating them with malt vinegar. I just salt mine now.

Man....I miss ‘em.

[ArrogantBustard]

1) You left out a whole lot more than "In John 6" ... you left out the part where I acknowledge that Jesus did indeed take on an ascerbic tone sometimes. As I said, that changes the meaning ... even if you had no intent to do so. Remember that one of my earlier points of discussion was the matter of misrepresenting or distorting other folks beliefs. Such misrepresentation or distortion may be unintentional, but it's still a problem to be avoided.

2) "It does appear that you are trying to bait me into saying something ‘anti-Catholic’". My apologies; I'm not trying to bait anyone. I'm trying to make a few points, as follows:

a) Offensiveness does not imply correctness.

b) Correctness does not imply offensiveness.

c) Offensiveness of manner and offensiveness of message are not the same thing.

d) Misrepresenting other folks' beliefs does not enhance the credibility of one's own beliefs.

e) Folks should examine their own consciences before examining others'.

[MarkBsnr]

I never heard it that way around. I have only heard, “From your lips to God’s ears,” meaning, of course, “May God hear and grant your prayer.”

And that is the only way that I have ever heard, as well. I suppose though, that there are many who would have us believe that every word that they say are God's words and we had better pay appropriate attention!!! That reminds me of a certain poster that came on like an OT prophet (didn't he also assume an OT prophet's screen name?).

[r9etb]

It's the Gospel of the Kingdom that YOUR Church believes and teaches. Are you denying this? Because I don't understand your point if you are confused on which Gospel your Church believes.

Let me answer this way: I'm not a Catholic.

A bit of initial humility on your part might have spared you the humiliation of such a loudly proclaimed bit of presumptuousness.

And as to your assertions about what the Catholic Church teaches.... I'm pretty sure you're wrong about that, too.