Posted on 04/19/2010 11:45:07 AM PDT by TaraP
Premillenial.
(I'm classic premillennial, uncommitted concerning the timing of the rapture and the nature of the tribulation.)
I'm unconvinced about the likelyhood of a rapture and believe the tribulation will happen when it happens. Rapture belief has always struck me as something people grasp at who are seeking to save their hides from the tribulation.
As far as "with a flood" is concerned, it is well within the normal (or literal) method of interpeting prophecy for such an expression to be considered metaphorically.
True. My point being the author in his detailed proof of Dan 9:26 prophetic fulfillment completely ignored the flood mentioned in the verse.
Total literalism would not be a suitable means of interpreting scripture in any case. Where to interpret figuratively and where not to is, of course, an open question.
Prior to opening the bible to begin study, one should have a standard by which scripture should be interpreted; literally -vs- figuratively and that standard should apply to each verse from Genesis to Revelation. I've come across few who do this.
“Um....its just not there.”
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The glaring thing that is missing is a temple. How can Antichrist stand in the holy place if there is no holy place, thus all this assertion that “the covenant has been confirmed” has to be popycock.
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Thanks for the ping!
I’ve become a panmillenialist — it will all pan out in the end.
Ah, but Jesus forcefully asserted that the generation he was speaking TO was the generation He was speaking OF. And, true to His prophetic word, almost exactly 40 years later, Jerusalem was sacked. Since the flames that consumed the profaned / pointless temple had melted the gold, the Romans took apart the foundation stones to recover the precious metal. Not one stone was left upon another.
Bad theology is a harsh taskmaster. A perverted doctrine of faith healing has led Christian parents to withhold insulin from diabetic children -- then watch them die in comas. A perverted doctrine of eschatology, one that proclaims as "gospel" the certainty of the global triumph of evil, cripples lives and witness in a more subtle way. For example, when I was an apocalypse-crazed Jesus Freak, when everyone KNEW that the end was upon us, when I was 20 years old, it was impossible to think more than a week or two ahead. Like many of my peers, I lost five irreplaceable years to that temporal fog / fugue. Those are critical years for launching careers and vocations -- and I'm still dealing with the consequences 38 years later.
OTOH, since embracing a more God-honoring eschatology at age 30, I have seen God's favor, power, and grace rest upon other long-term projects. For example, my first and only wife is still crazy about me. Now, THAT'S a miracle! At a point when many my age are getting ready to retire, I'm preparing for another career, and prayerfully seeking to maximize the "second half of my adult life" for God's glory. Launching projects that are calibrated in terms of the next three decades.
While your team keeps watching with bated breath for signs of Satan's triumph, serving as adoring groupies for the most recent AC candidates, I know folks on my team who are studying Turkish, Arabic, Farsi, and anticipating the global collapse of Islam. Hmmm ... studying a foreign language is hard work. Who's going to tackle that kind of project when we KNOW that we don't have the years it would take?
Yup.........without “the Temple” this falls flat.
It’s struck me that when David sought to build a house for God, yet He was the one to determine when and where His house would be built.
NOPE.
That near history did not fit the criteria at all.
It certainly did not fit the whole counsel of the whole of Scripture on the matter in any way, shape or form.
I can agree with RJR_fan up to a point, Quix. My interpretive framework is to accept the possibility of preterist, historic, or futurist interpretation based on what a passage calls for both in its immediate context and when compared with the teaching of prophetic scripture as a whole. I cheerfully accept that much of what Christ predicted came to pass in A.D. 70, but I believe much of it did not. I also agree that some premillennialists might be tempted to neglect their present duty to society. But that caricature certainly doesn’t apply to most of us. Some of the most dedicated missionaries were premillennial because they believed the time might be short.
All preterists claim this ... but they always get wrapped around the axle insisting that Matt 24 already happened.
How does thinking that Matthew 24 already happened "wrap me around the axle"?
29 "But immediately after the tribulation of those days THE SUN WILL BE DARKENED, AND THE MOON WILL NOT GIVE ITS LIGHT, AND THE STARS WILL FALL from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.
30 "And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the SON OF MAN COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF THE SKY with power and great glory.
What events in AD 70 happened to fulfill this?
The destruction of Jerusalem, of the Temple, and of the entire Old Covenant system. It's apocalyptic language, very similar to that used in the Old Testament to predict the Babylonian captivity. "Coming on the clouds" is a coming in judgment, a judgment that took place catastrophically and utterly in the siege and destruction of Jerusalem.
In my view Matthew 24 is actually the strongest single passage in support of Preterism, simply because of verse 34:
"I tell you the truth, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened."
Your entire escatological system is built on one single point ... that “this generation” MUST mean Jesus’ contemporaries. By insisting that this is absolutely the meaning ... you must shoehorn interpretations of the entire discourse that are foreign to the grammatical and historical context ...
but to each his own ... we can both enjoy our freedom in Christ wrt escatology.
Here is a rather lengthy rebuttle of the preterist position ... not for the sleepy.
http://www.pre-trib.org/articles/view/has-bible-prophecy-already-been-fulfilled
Not at all, though it's a major point.
Unfortunately without that meaning, the statement is completely meaningless. But there are far more points of support than this - similar claims are repeated in several other places in the New Testament, and the entire tone of the writers of the New Testament reflects an expectation that the "end" would come in their lifetimes, or at least during the lifetimes of their immediate readers.
but to each his own ... we can both enjoy our freedom in Christ wrt escatology.
Very true.
Here is a rather lengthy rebuttle of the preterist position ... not for the sleepy.
I'll take a look; thanks.
Actually, this one is more to the point ...
http://www.pre-trib.org/articles/view/matthew-24-and-this-generation
The whole site is chuck full of escatological musings.
Since "all these things" did not take place in the first century then the generation that Christ speaks of must be future.
Well that's quite a piece of circular reasoning, no?
“It’s struck me that when David sought to build a house for God, yet He was the one to determine when and where His house would be built.”
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Are you sure that yuou want to stand by that idea? Scripture indicates that he followed YHWH’s will, and even yielded to him by not building the temple that he so desired to build.
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“Ah, but Jesus forcefully asserted that the generation he was speaking TO was the generation He was speaking OF.”
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That misconception comes from a grammatical misunderstanding. The Generation was the generation of the church. Bad theology is exactly what rises out of the misconception you embrace.
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“Since “all these things” did not take place in the first century then the generation that Christ speaks of must be future.”
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“Well that’s quite a piece of circular reasoning, no?”
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No, not circular, but incomplete.
The word ‘generation’ is not used in the Bible as we use it today. For example, Christ refered to the Jewish rabbinicals as a “generation of vipers.” That was not just those alive at the time, but the entire Rabinical generation. The same applies to the generation of believers that Christ refered to in his prophecy, that continues to this day, and onward until the prophecy is fulfilled.
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