Nifonging the Catholic Church

me ^ | April 18, 2010 | vanity

[boatbums]

It is HIGHLY likely that when Papist Bigots castigate the scribe of a major portion of the New Testament that at least some Prottys will have some thoughts to share about that.

I may not use the same "colorful" labels, but I also find it curious when the person our Lord used to inspire the majority of scripture included in the New Testamant section of the Bible is cast in such questionable light. Don't like what he said? Cast doubt on his character, his sanity. Cast doubt on his inspirational source. In other words, kill the messenger. Yet, "Protestants" are the ones always accused of rejecting the Bible and picking and choosing what scripture to believe. Hypocrisy sure can get deep in this forum.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

I fail, at the very least, to see what good praying to someone else for what we are to pray only to God for, is going to do.

Roman Catholics not only believe that doing penance (performing good works) will pay for their own sins, they also believe doing penance can and will pay for the sins of others.

Roman Catholics believe they can store up good works and if they have more than they need to earn their own salvation they can give these extra credit payments in the form of penance to others to pay for their sins.

It's a primitive system of barter, completely ignoring the only sacrifice for sin that saves anyone -- Christ risen from the cross.

[betty boop]

LOL dearest sister in Christ for your kind words of support! Working title "God and the Observer Problem" is progressing. Slowly. I have accumulated a huge number of sources across many disciplines (philosophy, mathematics, science, theology), and am up to my eyeballs in "data." The challenge is to weave all of this into a single well-ordered narrative that people would actually bother to read.

Anyhoot, it's a work in progress. I think I'm going to need some serious help from the Holy Spirit to get it right.

Say a little prayer for me....

[wagglebee]

Jesus was/is fully God and fully man. He was transfigured on the mountain and then Moses and Elijah came to Him, while He was transfigured.

Correct so far.

There is nothing in the account that indicated that He went up for the purpose of meeting them,

Are you suggesting that He was "surprised" by what happened, that He did not know what was going to happen?

He met them transfigured, not in His earthly human (as we are) state.

That is irrelevant, Moses and Elijah were not dead, they were alive. Eternal life is what we are promised.

Nor does that justify the practice the habit of praying to saints when Jesus Himself said we are to pray to God the Father. Nowhere are we commanded to pray to anyone but God.

Asking saints to pray for us is quite different from praying to them. Throughout the Bible there are occasions where others are asked to pray and Revelation 5:8 speaks of the "prayers of the saints", keep in mind that the saints in Heaven see things differently from us (1 Corinthians 13:12).

[metmom]

Galatians 2:15-16 "We who are Jews by birth and not 'Gentile sinners' know that a man is not justified by observing the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by observing the law, because by observing the law no one will be justified."

But then again, it's Paul speaking.....

[metmom]

No, I doubt He was surprised by what happened, but his encounter with them was in His glorified body, which we don’t have yet.

[Dutchboy88]

These are some of the best, bald-faced questions about this practice I have seen. Great post.

What I suspect you will be inundated with is that tired old saw that, “The Catholic Church wrote the Bible and therefore we can add to it any theological claim we wish. After all, we are correct because we are correct and it is subject to the Church, not the other way around.”

This is the most common answer I see around here.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

Have you been dabbling in German Higher Criticism, Judith Anne? I'd like to know the name of the whackjob Catholic apologist(s) you've been reading, that would say (in direct opposition to Catholic tradition) that "Paul didn't write Ephesians."

lol. A little knowledge can be a dangerous thing.

I've never heard anyone doubt Paul wrote Ephesians.

"Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:

Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ..." -- Ephesians 1:1-2

Maybe Judith is thinking of Hebrews.

Or Francis Bacon.

[boatbums]

They can be recognized for the exemplary lives without having titles added to their names and without prayers being said to them.

And without Feast Days proclaimed for them, and structures named after them, and relics, amulets, statues...I could go on.

[boatbums]

IT’S MY OPINION OF ST. PAUL. NO ONE ELSE’S. If you want to castigate me for MY OPINION, rest assured I don’t think that will cause me any grief.

Since I KNOW you never met the guy, I am curious WHY you don't like him.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

"...because by observing the law no one will be justified."

I've noticed that Roman Catholics do not understand what the Law is with regards to Jesus Christ and salvation.

Thus they cannot see the necessity of the sacrifice fulfilling the Law, once for all the sins of His flock, nor do they understand that Christ alone did just that on behalf of His sheep.

This may be due, in part, to Rome's ignorance of the Old Testament and its insistence that the OT has very little meaning to the New Testament, when in fact all Scripture is God-breathed. The OT and NT make up ONE BOOK wherein God reveals to men who He is, who they are, what they are supposed to do in the present, and what awaits them in the future.

[Alamo-Girl]

Thank you so much for that beautiful Scripture, dear sister in Christ, and for sharing your insights! If you get an answer to your question, please ping me.

[Alamo-Girl]

Indeed. Praise God!!!

[1000 silverlings]

All that pre-destination theology in Ephesians — must have been written by squirrels in Franciscan attics

[Alamo-Girl]

Say a little prayer for me....

Of course!

I pray for you and all your loved ones every day!

[wagglebee]

No, I doubt He was surprised by what happened, but his encounter with them was in His glorified body, which we don’t have yet.

The prohibition was against communication with the dead and Moses and Elijah were very much alive as witnessed by Saints Peter, James and John. The state of our Lord had nothing to do with what the Disciples witnessed.

[Quix]

They can be recognized for the exemplary lives without having titles added to their names and without prayers being said to them.

And without Feast Days proclaimed for them, and structures named after them, and relics, amulets, statues...I could go on.

- - -

INDEED, INDEED.

[metmom]

Catholics pray TO saints and make requests TO them. Here are some examples made by a brief google search.

These people can’t do anything FOR us. If it were just a matter of asking them to pry for us, that could be defensible, but these prayers are petitions to them. And prayers to ANGELS? What’s with that?

One thing that stuck out at me was the massive number of those who have been granted the title of *Saint*. It’s astounding. Maybe the purpose is for exhorting those of us here on earth by their exemplary life, but I’ve never heard of well over 90% of them.

http://www.catholic.org/prayers/prayer.php?p=96
To St. Joseph for Protection

Gracious St. Joseph, protect me and my family from all evil as you did the Holy Family. Kindly keep us ever united in the love of Christ, ever fervent in imitation of the virtue of our Blessed Lady, your sinless spouse, and always faithful in devotion to you. Amen.

http://www.ourladyweb.com/mary-prayers.html
Prayer to St. Michael

Holy Michael, the Archangel, defend us in battle. Be our protection against the wickedness and snares of the devil. May God rebuke him, we humbly pray; and do you, O Prince of the heavenly host, by the power of God cast into hell Satan and all evil spirits who wander through the world seeking the ruin of souls.
Amen.

Prayer To Your Guardian Angel

Angel of God, my guardian dear, To whom God’s love commits me here, Ever this day, be at my side, To light and guard, Rule and guide.
Amen.

http://www.2heartsnetwork.org/Jude.htm
For Spiritual Help (to St. Jude)

Glorious apostle, martyr, and servant of Jesus, St. Jude Thaddeus, you spread the true faith among the most barbarous and distant nations, and won to the obedience of Jesus Christ many tribes and peoples by the power of His Holy Word. Grant, I beg you, that from this day I may renounce every sinful habit, that I may be preserved from all evil thoughts, that I may always obtain your assistance, particularly in danger and difficulty, and that I may reach the heavenly country, with you to adore the Most Holy Trinity, the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, forever and ever. Amen.

http://www.catholicity.com/prayer/prayers.html
To Mary
Memorare

Remember, O most gracious Virgin Mary,
that never was it known
that any one who fled to thy protection,
implored thy help
or sought thy intercession,
was left unaided.
Inspired by this confidence,
We fly unto thee, O Virgin of virgins my Mother;
to thee do we come, before thee we stand, sinful and sorrowful;
O Mother of the Word Incarnate,
despise not our petitions,
but in thy mercy hear and answer them. Amen.

[metmom]

No doubt. SOP.

[metmom]

This may be due, in part, to Rome's ignorance of the Old Testament and its insistence that the OT has very little meaning to the New Testament, when in fact all Scripture is God-breathed.

The whole point of the OT is to lead us to Christ and so that the world will recognize Him when He comes (came). The OT gives incredible meaning to the NT.