Joseph Smith—Prophet of the Restoration - Mormon (OPEN)

LDS.org Gospel Library ^ | October 8, 2009

[T Minus Four]

Googled it. Here's what it says about the lowest kingdom of heaven:

109 But behold, and lo, we saw the glory and the inhabitants of the telestial world, that they were as innumerable as the stars in the firmament of heaven, or as the sand upon the seashore;
110 And heard the voice of the Lord saying: These all shall bow the knee, and every tongue shall confess to him who sits upon the throne forever and ever;
111 For they shall be judged according to their works, and every man shall receive according to his own works, his own dominion, in the mansions which are prepared; 112 And they shall be as servants of the Most High; but where God and Christ dwell they cannot come

[Normandy]

My personal interpretation of this scripture is that marrying and being given in marriage pertain to this mortal life, not after the resurrection — that those covenants are entered into in this world and when sealed on earth by one having that authority, that marriage will be sealed in heaven.

Just speaking for myself.

[reaganaut]

LOL. One of the RM’s I dated in Utah LOVED Battlestar Galactica. When he found out the writer/creator was LDS, he was like “Oh, that’s why it always made such sense!”.

Contrast this to my never-mo husband who thought BG was great sci-fi and then found out it was based on LDS theology freaked out that anyone would actually believe ANYTHING close to BG.

[Normandy]

The verses I was referring to are 86-88 of section 76.

What you are quoting indicates that those in the Telestial world (the lesser of the three degrees) will not dwell in the presence of the Father or the Son.

[reaganaut]

So god having a god, who has a god, forever, is right and reasonable to them? REALLY?

- - - - - - —
Yes. It is considered one of the ‘eternal principles’ that the Universe is run on.

Another one is that God cannot create/destroy matter, He can only organize it.

[SZonian]

"BUT.....isn’t there a terrible penalty to pay if you leave the Mo church?"

Those who turn their back on the church are apostates and are doomed to outer darkness. They/I don't get to go to any of the "kingdoms" listed.

[Normandy]

Thanks very much — likewise :)

[T Minus Four]

So you are saying that marriages sealed here on earth continue forever, but after that, no new marriages happen?

[T Minus Four]

Bummer

[T Minus Four]

Another one is that God cannot create/destroy matter, He can only organize it.

That one I've heard. Is that another truth that one should not ponder?

[SZonian]

"Aren’t there travel and communication restrictions between the levels?"

Only those in the "Celestial kingdom" can "minister" to those in "lesser degrees of glory". So to answer your question, yes, "travel" as you put it, is restricted.

That's why there is so much pressure put upon lds members by their families to attain the "Celestial kingdom". They all want to "be together forever".

[reaganaut]

But what if you live in different levels: celestial, telestial, terrestial. Aren’t there travel and communication restrictions between the levels?

- - - - - - - -
Those in the higher levels can go to the lower levels but not vice versa.

Those who are not ‘worthy’ of the Celestial Kingdom did not prove themselves ‘worthy’ to be in the presence of God the Father.

But they can go down to the lower kingdoms. Those in the lower kingdoms cannot go up. Kinda like a caste system.

The fact that Jesus is over the middle kingdom also shows that, in reality, the LDS see Him as a ‘lesser’ God. Those who are not worthy to be in the presence of Heavenly Father can still be worthy enough to be in the Presence of Jesus.

B

[reaganaut]

I have never heard anti-catholics state Jesus was married.

I’m an evangelical and believe that if Jesus married and had children KNOWING He was here to die on the cross after a few years, that would be selfish and selfishness is a sin, and Christ did not sin.

[SZonian]

"Bummer"

My lds wife thinks so. Me, not so much.

[reaganaut]

My personal interpretation of this scripture is that marrying and being given in marriage pertain to this mortal life, not after the resurrection — that those covenants are entered into in this world and when sealed on earth by one having that authority, that marriage will be sealed in heaven.

Just speaking for myself.

- - - - - - - -
That is also what I was taught when I was LDS and what the LDS leaders have taught regarding that verse, that Jesus was only speaking of this life.

Which begs the question, if there is no marriage in Heaven, then how do the proxy marriages work here? If you are not sealed when you die, how does post-mortem sealing not violate that verse?

[reaganaut]

Is that another truth that one should not ponder?

- - - - - - - -
Not that I have ever heard. It was pretty much discussed openly and I had a Senior seminar at BYU that spent most of the semester discussing this as proof God is not omnipotent.

[T Minus Four]

Then how do the lower levels “be as servants” to the uppers?

[T Minus Four]

Me either :-) Keep praying for her.

[Normandy]

That is certainly not LDS doctrine.

[T Minus Four]

What exactly does it mean to “minister” to the lower levels?