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Pope Benedict XVI calls for new economic system based on love in G8 message [new, stronger U.N.]
Times Online ^ | July 7, 2009 | Ruth Gledhill

Posted on 07/07/2009 7:11:06 AM PDT by Alex Murphy

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To: Pyro7480

It still sounds like socialism to me under the guise of a third party acting in my behalf, but against my will.

What if I do not want any of my earnings taken from me and given to someone else without my consent, which I won’t give.

Does this organization have the power to force me to?


41 posted on 07/07/2009 9:59:25 AM PDT by stockpirate (The movement to take back America has already started, Sarah is her name.)
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To: Pyro7480
Yes, but he repeats the point about subsidiarity after that

Yes, but what does that mean??? Looks to me your pope is for globalization as long as the ruling elite are a small group of leaders with ultimate authority as opposed to a conglomeration of ruling nations...Just like your religion...

42 posted on 07/07/2009 10:48:32 AM PDT by Iscool (I don't understand all that I know...)
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To: Salvation
Dig a little deeper, please, and find the truth.

Lol. This is rich. Thou keeper of links.

43 posted on 07/07/2009 6:26:35 PM PDT by Invincibly Ignorant
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To: Woebama; Dr. Eckleburg; Gamecock; HarleyD
The most fitting reply I could make is below . . . from the NEWS/ACTIVISM thread on this topic. It's better, for spiritual discussions about it to be in Religion, imho.

In any case, this post RE The Pope's calling for a more comprehensive world government leaves no room for rationalizations. This is a critical issue.

One is either FOR the looming world government and its leader satan

!!!!OR!!!!

One is wholeheartedly, emphatically and thoroughly

AGAINST

The looming global government of Biblical END TIMES PROPHECY.

There is NO room for middle ground. The earlier Vatican encyclicals straddling the bob-wire fence are hollow, nonsense.

POLITICAL, BUREAUCRATIC, RELIGIOUS, FANCY WORD-DANCING over and around the issues is SEDUCTIVE, demonized nonsense regardless of who engages in it. And there will be an abundance of such word-dancing from many flavors of RELIGIOUS centers power between now and Armageddon.

Folks who are soooooooooooooo addictively reverentially adoring of structures, leaders, philosophies, personages, rituals, customs, organizations . . . ANY-thing, EVERY-thing LESS THAN GOD ALMIGHTY . . . such that they cannot/WILL NOT receive the truth of these words are on very dangerous ground. They MUST decide at the earliest opportunity to put GOD ALMIGHT--THE LORD JESUS--FIRST, FOREMOST IN THEIR LIFE.

Some will rationalize that they are merely "DEFENDING THE TRUTH" etc. etc. etc. yada, yada, yada. GOD KNOWS THE TRUTH OF THAT. The piercing discerining fire of Holy Spirit will be striking and slicing through the rationalized demonic chaff of many such thoughts anew for some who are reading these words. Some will have a new degree of freedom of choice upon reading these words. THEY MUST NOT shuffle that freedom aside and instead cling tighter to the dry husks of demonized RELIGION.

They MUST break free and CLING INSTEAD MORE TIGHTLY THAN EVER TO JESUS AND JESUS ALONE.

FORSAKE

!!!!ALL!!!!
ELSE
SAVE
CHRIST
ALONE

Some folks will be inclined to rationalize that ALL their rituals, structures, adorations of personages, individuals, offices, organizations, customs etc. IS putting Christ first. The RELIGIOUS leaders 2000 years ago pontificated similarly. Christ would have none of it then. His Spirit will have none of it now. His Spirit knows THE TRUTH about all hearts regardless of the mental rationalizations to the contrary.

This is true of folks in EVERY denominational, organizational, "Christian" group.

We are at the door of the slippery slope rushing headlong at an ever faster clip to Armageddon. Any other view is blind, deaf, dumb, clueless. Sorry. It has nothing to do with my personal perspective. The Scripture and obvious global evidence no longer leave any room for any other perspective to be called truth on that issue.

I don't recall ever writing such a fierce post. It shocks and sobers me to watch the words come out of my fingers. I have a slight human tendency to want to say "But Lord . . . " Yet HE WILL HAVE NONE OF IT. The PRESS of . . . an incredibly strong hand at my back is unmistakable. The words from these flawed humble fingers will be truth and life from The Lord when Holy Spirit confirms them as such and the individual receives them as such.

I certainly encourage folks to weigh these words and TAKE THEM TO THE LORD FOR HIS CONFIRMATION OR NOT.

However, IF AND WHEN THE LORD confirms them to an individual's heart and mind--THEN, they have no choice but to follow through AS THE LORD WOULD HAVE FOR EACH INDIVIDUAL ACCORDINGLY.

I encourage folks to

submit wholesale, anew

TO
GOD ALONE
CHRIST ALONE
HOLY SPIRIT ALONE!
FORSAKE
ALL
ELSE;
!!!!ALL!!!!
ELSE!

I don't know how to describe what I feel and what is pouring through my spirit as I write this post. I don't ever recall feeling quite the same way ever before.

I'm taken quite by surprise by it as I do it. I did not expect this as I began this post.

I just know emphatically that these issues are ETERNAL issues. ETERNAL destinies will be decided based on these issues.

Organizations, structures, rituals, personages, adorations of anything else, rationalizations, idolatries, smug 'in-group' confidences; human habits; customs; unforgiveness, pride, judgmental, self-righteousness, righteousness in anything else but the Blood of Jesus; forms of Godliness while denying the Power thereof; "social custom-affinity-'Christianity;'" works of the flesh; confidence in the flesh; . . . have only death as fruit.

PRETENDING and rationalizing otherwise will not enliven the corpse.

Clinging to dry husk demonized RELIGION will not enliven the corpse.

Taking offense at the fierceness of this post will not bring life.

LIFE
IS
IN
CHRIST,
HIS BLOOD,
ALONE!

NOTHING else is sufficient.
NOTHING else is remotely sufficient!
NOTHING else has a whiff of sufficiency.
NOTHING else has a sub-atomic particle's worth of sufficiency.

Via Steve Foss: Psalm 132:7-9:

Let us go into His tabernacle. Let us worship at His footstool. Arise, Oh Lord, to Your resting place. You and the Ark of your strength. Let our Priests be clothed with Righteousness. And let your saints shout for joy.

.

Virtually every "Christian" organization and congregation has evolved customs that have become construed as and labeled as, believed to be, to equal, to result in "RIGHTEOUSNESS" when they are, in fact, a human, if not, demonized stench.

GOD SEEKS TO MEET with each individual . . . all the time, throughout all our days and moments. All the more so at places called His houses of worship.

Yet, most congregations focus on everything but RELATIONSHIP immediacy, intimacy, dialogue, the PRESENCE of The Lord IN DIALGOUE with each individual and with each group. Tickling itching ear "Christianity" does NOT cut it.

[See Mat 12:3; Mat 24:1-2--a prophetic warning of The Lord]

RELIGION has taken the place of RELATIONSHIP WITH GOD.

RELIGION has taken the place of living out God's priorities with one another . . . the 2nd Commandment and the Golden Rule.

Folks follow through on rituals and congratulate themselves foolishly that they are 'spiritually' safe and quite OK--top flight even--when they've not really even entered the Doorway of RELATIONSHIP WITH GOD nor even healthy, authentic relationship with one another.

God will not be marked. His priorities are clear in Scripture. NO rationalizations, nor rituals otherwise will absolve anyone of any degree of ignoring God's priorities. And every congregation has it's seductive rituals in all denominational organizations. Some rituals in and of themselves are fairly benign--until folks IMPUTE to them, Salvific redemptiveness. White-washed tomb RELIGION will never cut it--no matter how quaint, cute, rosy, warm and fuzzy the rituals involved.

Satan is not playing a shallow, inconsequential game regarding globalism.

NEITHER IS GOD.

#################################################

GOD ALONE IS GOD.
GOD ALONE IS SUFFICIENT.
GOD ALONE IS WORTHY.

#################################################
#################################################

BTW, The following link to a Sid Roth interview with Grace William and the MIRACULOUS music GOD HAS BEEN RELEASING THROUGH HER as well as her miraculous healing . . . her atheist mother's conversion etc. It includes the touching and impactful "DON'T EVER LET ME GO." It's well worth a listen.

Grace William's own website is:

http://www.gracegrace.org

The Sid Roth interview is at:

http://www.sidroth.org/site/News2?abbr=tv_&page=NewsArticle&id=7505 [It should be interesting to see whether some Calvinist naysayers will cluck more derisively than the RC naysayers, or not.]

44 posted on 07/08/2009 8:59:30 AM PDT by Quix (POL Ldrs quotes fm1900 2 presnt: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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To: Pyro7480

That Scripture refers to

THE BODY OF CHRIST.

THE BODY OF CHRIST

is wholesale

NOT [remotely] EQUAL

to the Vatican political bureaucratic structure/oranization/church


45 posted on 07/08/2009 9:02:21 AM PDT by Quix (POL Ldrs quotes fm1900 2 presnt: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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To: marshmallow; Dr. Eckleburg; DarthVader
Essentially, it seems that you are saying . . .

that the abundance of other words . . .

and the enormously complex context of said abundance of other words

wholesale change the meaning of very serious words and phrases

= = = =

I don't buy it.

Word dancing
doesn't cut it.

Rationalized diplospeak
doesn't cut it.

Straddling the fence
doesn't cut it.

SCRIPTURE IS EXCEEDINGLY CLEAR about the END TIMES ERA GLOBAL GOVERNMENT.

It won't be a little evil.
It won't be evil in little pockets here and there.
It won't be kosher for self-exempting RELIGIOUS groups to opt out of the evil at will

It won't be evil on one side of the street and not on the other.
It won't be evil on one side of the mouth and not on the other.
It won't be evil on one side of the fence and not on the other.

It won't be evil on one side of the page and not on the other.
It won't be evil on one side of the smiling diploface and not on the other.

It won't be evil if you avoid carrying a rosary but not if you do.
It won't be evil outside the cathedral doors but not in.

Scripture is clear--it WILL BE EVIL THROUGH AND THROUGH and the world over . . . and more evil than has ever been before or ever will be after.

Disagree with Scripture at your own risk.

46 posted on 07/08/2009 9:12:33 AM PDT by Quix (POL Ldrs quotes fm1900 2 presnt: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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To: Woebama

From the Encyclical. Pay close attention and see if you can find the sentence that firmly speaks against a one world government. Oh heck not just a sentence but a whole theme.

” particular manifestation of charity and a guiding criterion for fraternal cooperation between believers and non-believers is undoubtedly the principle of subsidiarity[137], an expression of inalienable human freedom. Subsidiarity is first and foremost a form of assistance to the human person via the autonomy of intermediate bodies. Such assistance is offered when individuals or groups are unable to accomplish something on their own, and it is always designed to achieve their emancipation, because it fosters freedom and participation through assumption of responsibility. Subsidiarity respects personal dignity by recognizing in the person a subject who is always capable of giving something to others. By considering reciprocity as the heart of what it is to be a human being, subsidiarity is the most effective antidote against any form of all-encompassing welfare state. It is able to take account both of the manifold articulation of plans — and therefore of the plurality of subjects — as well as the coordination of those plans. Hence the principle of subsidiarity is particularly well-suited to managing globalization and directing it towards authentic human development. In order not to produce a dangerous universal power of a tyrannical nature, the governance of globalization must be marked by subsidiarity, articulated into several layers and involving different levels that can work together. Globalization certainly requires authority, insofar as it poses the problem of a global common good that needs to be pursued. This authority, however, must be organized in a subsidiary and stratified way[138], if it is not to infringe upon freedom and if it is to yield effective results in practice.”


47 posted on 07/08/2009 9:20:08 AM PDT by lastchance (Hug your babies.)
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To: lastchance; Dr. Eckleburg; wmfights; Blogger

Which . . .

being interpreted means . . .

These words here absolve me of all meaning and responsibility for those words

over there

out of the other side of my mouth/fingers.


48 posted on 07/08/2009 9:22:17 AM PDT by Quix (POL Ldrs quotes fm1900 2 presnt: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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To: Pyro7480

One problem is that when certain people read the phrase “redistrubtion of wealth” they think it means coming in and taking without due process the fruits of their labors and giving it to another without any accountability being laid upon the recepient. That is Socialism. But that is not Church social teaching which sees wealth not as money alone but as natural resources, means of production, labor, capital, production of goods, profit and investment.

Of these first claim to them is had by the individual who produces them for his betterment and that of his family. What the Church requires is that these things not be used in an exploitive manner that actually hinders a person’s dignity or rights. And that in Christian charity we share the benefits of these with the less fortunate. Not to keep them in a stagnant condition but to actually lift them out of poverty so that they too can contribute to a greater good.

An example of this redistribution of wealth can be seen in the urging that large pharmaceutical companies allow distribution of generic versions of their Aids medicine in developing nations which do not have the means to afford the patented versions. Another example is the simple principle that a business give consideration to a fair and livable wage to its workers as a primary goal and good of business and not just to maximize profits at the expense of those who help produce that profit. (These two things must of course be balanced since without profit a business would go under. So workers who demand wages which make it unrealistic for a business to continue are working against themselves)

Redistribution of wealth also means in Church social teaching a fair system of taxation and distribution of the revenue generated by these taxes. The goal being the protection of human dignity and the elevation of the common good. We know for certain that a perpetual welfare state accomplishes neither of these. We also know that the more layers of beauracracy placed between the aid and the individual the more likey it is that government power will grow while individual autonomy weakens. When this happens the whole philosophy of a political system existing to protect God given rights is lost. Rather we see a philosophy develop which claims the person is to be in service of the State to advance its goals and protect its status. The voices of the poor and oppressed are silenced by this and the ideals of justice and true peace are mocked.

That is what the Church teaches against. The idea that the person should not be the primary focus of any economic system. That is not Socialism but the acknowledgment that we are made in the image of God and any system which exploits or injures the person is an affront to the love the Creator has for us. And for the very Incarnation.


49 posted on 07/08/2009 9:49:56 AM PDT by lastchance (Hug your babies.)
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To: Pyro7480; Mr Rogers
Yes, but he repeats the point about subsidiarity after that:

Which of the two will win out. Decision making at the lowest level, or a global bureaucracy with the power to enforce it's mandates? Your Pope wants both and neither is compatible with the other.

Why not support free markets?

50 posted on 07/08/2009 10:19:33 AM PDT by wmfights (If you want change support SenateConservatives.com)
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