Posted on 06/27/2009 10:33:55 PM PDT by bdeaner
It is how YOU interpret what Jesus taught.
Sure. But faith is still what’s required to be saved. Works alone will not do it; works should be an expression of your faith.
What saves a man? Works or faith? Just look at the words of Jesus himself: Mark 16:16 and Luke 7:50.
There is a judgment for Christians:
1 Cor 3:
“11 For no one can lay a foundation other than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if anyone builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw— 13 each one’s work will become manifest, for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed by fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done. 14 If the work that anyone has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. 15 If anyone’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.”
Our ministry will be judged. Our souls will not, if we have been born again.
Sir,
From the link you posted, Jerome to Augustine:
“5. You, however, in order to avoid doing what I had asked, have devised a new argument against the view proposed; maintaining that the Gentiles who had believed in Christ were free from the burden of the ceremonial law, but that the Jewish converts were under the law, and that Paul, as the teacher of the Gentiles, rightly rebuked those who kept the law; whereas Peter, who was the chief of the “circumcision,” Galatians 2:8 was justly rebuked for commanding the Gentile converts to do that which the converts from among the Jews were alone under obligation to observe. If this is your opinion, or rather since it is your opinion, that all from among the Jews who believe are debtors to do the whole law, you ought, as being a bishop of great fame in the whole world, to publish your doctrine, and labour to persuade all other bishops to agree with you.”
Augustine was obviously in the wrong, since what he wrote is contrary to scripture. However, Jerome is also insisting, 3 centuries after the fact, that Paul did not rebuke Peter - which clearly is contrary both to scripture, and to the account given by an eyewitness, while the other party was still alive and capable of contradicting him.
“11But when Cephas came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he stood condemned.”
And what had he done? In addition to action, he had tried to “force the Gentiles to live like Jews”. Frankly, force is a much stronger word than teach, since it implies a penalty if the teaching is not followed.
Also, I believe you lay at the feet of Jerome what he considered blasphemous.
“In fact, St. Jerome comments that St. Paul sometimes had envy towards ST. Peter and boasted of things that he did not do. Remember, St. Paul himself notes that he struggled with a sin throughout his life, perhaps Jerome was telling us that this may have been the struggle St. Paul had, as St. Jerome writes with respect to Paul he “had written boastfully of things which he either had not done, or, if he did them, had done with inexcusable presumption.”
But Jerome wrote: “...and to restrain the shameless blasphemies of Porphyry, who says that Peter and Paul quarrelled with each other in childish rivalry, and affirms that Paul had been inflamed with envy on account of the excellences of Peter, and had written boastfully of things which he either had not done, or, if he did them, had done with inexcusable presumption, reproving in another that which he himself had done.”
Faith AND works.
Do you think you will be saved with a dead faith?
Works alone will not do it...
Nor will faith alone.
What saves a man?
Faith plus works.
Works or faith?
The question is flawed: a false dichotomy.
Love the Scripture. You can keep your interpretation of it.
False. Please read the words of Jesus in Mark 16 and Luke 7. NO WHERE does our Lord require works to be saved; only faith.
Please point to where Jesus says that you can be saved by works, or that you need works to be saved. He doesn't, because that's not true.
Do you think you will be saved with a dead faith?
No. If you have faith, it is alive. Jesus does not put any qualifiers on the strength of faith, or "you must have X number of works or manifestations of faith". He simply states "your faith saves you". Period.
If you wish to take later, apostolic theology over the word of Christ that is your right; for me, I will accept the words of Jesus at face value (by faith).
Question for you: do you think you can work your way into Heaven, by doing good works?
Why would I do that? I didn't say you can be saved by works.
If you have faith, it is alive.
Such is your interpretation. But those who have faith without works have a dead faith.
...do you think you can work your way into Heaven, by doing good works?
I've already made it amply clear that salvation requires faith AND works.
Hellooooo!?! McFly!?!
Please point me to where Jesus says sola Scriptura.
Here is a link to the Pope’s interpretation of Galatians 2:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/2095462/posts
It fails to address Galatians 2:14 - “I said to Cephas before them all, “If you, though a Jew, live like a Gentile and not like a Jew, how can you force the Gentiles to live like Jews?”
I think it also fails to distinguish between not giving offense to Jews who might be converted, and placing burdens on Gentiles who have been converted.
Other than that, pretty good stuff.
It was Christ who said He who gives so much as a drink of water in my name shall by no means loose their reward in heaven. The reward is for our deeds but salvation is there regardless for those who believe. Our ransom or payment for our sins has done been paid as the price was set at the cross and agreed upon. We can not repay our salvation. No deed of labor we can do is enough to purchase our salvation and no punishment we could take for our sins can possibly take them away. That leaves only one way. Through Jesus alone are we saved.
Please define what you mean by "dead faith". Get that settled first before we get into it.
I do not see Jesus qualifying faith as living and dead. Only as faith. Play word-games as you want; the words of the Lord are quite clear and explicit. Add to them as you will, but I choose to accept His words as perfect.
As far as sola scriptura, see Jesus' words in Mark 7:1-15. Jesus is quite explicit: tradition and non-Biblical teachings are secondary to the Bible - the word of God. You worship in vain when anything beyond God's commandment and the word of God is held equal - or above - those commandments and words.
Those aren't my words, those are the words of Jesus. I would ask you to read over and consider them carefully.
Sola scriptura does not mean all other writings and teachings are irrelevant or to be shunned; they are simply of secondary status to the Bible, and not required to grasp the message of the Bible. You do not need anything beyond its words, or you run the risk of being the hypocritical pharisees that Jesus spoke against.
I’ll take scripture any time.
You have been shown numerous scriptures showing that you cannot be saved by works. I believe - correct me if I am wrong - that the Catholic Church does not suffer traditions that CONTRADICT scripture.
If you are waiting for Judgment Day to find out if you have done enough good deeds, then you violate the direct teaching of scripture.
“8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.”
Have been saved - past tense.
Not a result of works,
so no one may boast.
Faith without works.
As far as sola Scriptura, see Jesus' words in Mark 7:1-15. Jesus is quite explicit: tradition and non-Biblical teachings are secondary to the Bible - the word of God.
That is YOUR interpretation.
Christ is condemning human traditions that contradict Scripture.
Traditions of the Church Christ founded are not man-made, and they do not contradict Scripture.
You do not need anything beyond its words, or you run the risk of being the hypocritical pharisees that Jesus spoke against.
Such is YOUR interpretation.
More to the point, I have myself said numerous times that I do not believe one is saved by works.
Faith plus works.
Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.
All your supposed points have been used in the past to undermine the doctrine of the Trinity. Do you reject the Trinity, too? If not, then on what basis do you reject the doctrine of the Real Presence, and why do you zero in on "remembrance" while rejecting "DO THIS?"
I don’t know any Christian who denies the blood and body of Jesus Christ. We just deny the need to re-sacrifice Him every Mass.
Mary was not sinless. She was born into sin just like the rest of us and knew her Son was her Saviour, just like he is ours.
Eating wafers.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.